Magickal Gambling

A long story short, about a year ago I had a real gambling problem. I was doing a lot of LSD at the time, and would stay up for 18 hours straight, enjoying non-stop gambling, drug abuse and wanking. All in all, it was probably the best thing I ever did.

These experiences were all underwritten by jhana. I have known for some time that I have a talent for visual concentration meditation, meaning using a mind-made image as the object. This transposes onto gambling seamlessly. LSD just intensifies object-creation by about tenfold. Visualize the desired outcome, spin the reels, and it comes true before your very eyes. I was seemingly pulling money out of thin air, such as this disgusting £3140 GBP win — about $5000 USD — from a single spin:


As I already have Stream Entry, I can get access concentration just by resting my awareness on any object for a few moments. With the LSD in my system, I was slipping into second jhana in a matter of seconds, with the reels taking on a life of their own in my mind’s eye against a backdrop of fireworks and fractal geometry.


The visual jhanas are some of the most mesmerizing, beautiful and addictive jhanas available. It is well understood in concentration meditation circles that, the more pleasing the object, the easier it is to attain jhana on that object — and the more likely you are to want to come back to that object again, and again, and again — which hinders enlightenment through attachment to that state. Slot machine gambling provides extremely pleasing visual objects, plus the reward circuit activation required for jhana. Gambling objects are, in short, some of the easiest objects on which to attain jhana.

It is also understood however that, the more pleasing the object, the more one will want to cling to that object and its associated jhana state. This is one of many reasons why the breath is used for the purposes of insight — it is a neutral object. While capable of generating rapture and bliss, those factors are nevertheless easier to let go of in the breath, allowing more unattached states to develop. Visual jhanas on the other hand are stunning and highly compelling; vivid and vivacious, a galaxy within themselves.

By using visual jhanas of the slot machine reels, every time I gambled, I would win hundreds of pounds in a matter of minutes. This was always from stakes of no more than £2.

The problem however was GREED. The logic went something like this: “If I can make £500 from a £2 stake, what could I achieve if I bet a £10 stake?” I have this jarring memory of being ripped to the tits on LSD, ethylphenidate and a bottle of vodka, and being £6000 up, with my initials on the casino’s homepage on every leaderboard, having won all the small jackpots. Then I turned the stake up to £10, and next thing I knew I was about £7000 DOWN. That is quite a turnaround — and was money I didn’t have. In short, I fucked myself with my own cock.

Once you have attained Stream Entry, concentration practice usually ends up causing you to cycle through the Stages of Insight. It is basically automatic and difficult to avoid. Most of my wins were done in the Arising & Passing Away, a stage well known for the spontaneous arising of magickal powers. With skill, it is possible to keep triggering an Arising & Passing Away by repeatedly entering the second jhana. This is how I maintain a constant stream of wins, and I have done this publicly with witnesses, including somebody who reads this blog (and hopefully he will step forward and corroborate this story. You remember our joint jhana on the Baywatch machine, right? 😉 ).

The problem with greed, and turning the stake up to £10, is that it rubs up against my belief system. £2 is nothing to me, but £10 a spin seems a lot. Even though that is not logical, based on the wins I was getting on £2, that is the nature of belief systems — they are largely irrational. Once betting is no longer fun, the Arising & Passing Away blends seamlessly into Dissolution. This presents as a tangible drop in energy. Suddenly the wins are no longer happening, and the visualizations are difficult to make and are fuzzy. The spin cycles seem to be out of sync with your thoughts. You’re clicking the mouse, but nothing is happening except the money counter is going down. Then: Fear. There is a palpable adrenaline spike. Visualizations are rippled by fast vibrational currents and are basically impossible to control. The losses mount. You enter Misery. Then you feel Disgust with yourself. Thoughts on the nature of things begin, and the revolting pointlessness of it all. The mouse is tapped at angrily, almost losing intentionally to spite yourself. Then, futures begin to be pondered with thoughts of, “What if I actually DO get everything I want? THEN what?” A Desire for Deliverance from the whole nihilistic process arises — a yearning for release from the captivation of material things. Suddenly, an Equanimity is reached, with both wins and losses. The nature of reality is calmly perceived and accepted, and allowed to play out. The Equanimity phase is the other vipassana stage known for the spontaneous arising of magickal powers — but from a place of a calm allowing of reality to unfold as it wishes, rather than via the ostentatious “Devil may care” displays of the Arising & Passing Away. I remember playing two machines simultaneously, being £3000 down on £40 a stake, then suddenly hitting Equanimity. A voice said, “Everything is going to be cool! Everything is going to be cool!” Then I won feature on both machines, raking in £1500 each to recover the full £3000 in just a couple of spins. THEN I lost it all again — because everything is going to be cool man, no matter what, and winning and losing are just mental formations. Gambling while in Equanimity is very dangerous.

Fast forward a year, and a few days ago I received an email telling me that my BetFilter licence — the program that blocks all gambling sites on your devices — had expired. The sensible thing would have been to pay the thirty dollars (or whatever it was) and renew it. However, I was interested to see how nine months of daily jhana had affected my manifestation abilities, and instead went to the shop to buy a case of energy drinks and a bottle of vodka — and then settled into a very special night of non-stop gambling and masturbation.

My rule now is very, very simple: NEVER go above a £2 stake. I proceeded with my usual second jhana/ Arising & Passing Away system. The wins began amassing almost immediately and by the time I went to bed at 4am I was £500 up. I woke up with my head pounding, but happy, and basically lounged around in bed for most of the day. Then I had my usual cold shower which woke me up and got some kundalini flowing. While the gambling had been fantastic the night before, I was looking for something bigger to happen — something to affirm my magickal powers, and really to just blow my mind and give me an amazing experience. I loaded up Bier Haus, which is my favourite slot of all time.


I love Bier Haus so much. A year ago, while my friends would talk about football and load clips of goals on YouTube, I instead would watch videos of people winning big on Bier Haus. This game was my sport. Here is a fantastic video of an absolutely massive win:


The goal of Bier Haus is to get at least five women, starting from the leftmost column, and preferably the purple women as she becomes a “sticky wild” on the free spins feature. Five women unlock five free spins, and each additional woman unlocks an extra five spins. If every space on the screen is filled by a woman, that’s a total of 80 free spins possible. The free spins can also retrigger (by getting at least five women again during free spins), making endless winning a possibility.

This game is pure simple genius. You hardly ever win any prizes, but when you do, you win shitloads. Getting the feature is one of the toughest things in the world to do, because the odds are so ridiculously stacked against you. However, when you do get the feature, if you have even a couple of purple women (for the sticky wilds) then you are going to get a prize on every spin, making all the free spins pay out an absolute fortune. Getting the feature on this game is probably the biggest buzz I’ve ever got — better than sex, or even cocaine. The special noise it makes when you get a “Big Win” (screen filled with a good symbol) is amazing. The world just seems to stop, then that noise is made, then all the coins start flying out the screen as your bank balance skyrockets. Watch the video to see what I’m talking about — the machine makes the noise at 0:54. The guy goes crazy throughout, and this is the reaction I have to this game, too. I literally start clapping, screaming, and pounding the air with my fist. The “pint of beer” symbol is the wild symbol, meaning it substitutes for all symbols, and a purple woman makes a beer symbol stay on that spot throughout free spins. You are always hoping for streams of that beer symbol to come down and settle, and for the machine to make that special noise — it’s Heaven.

Anyway, I loaded up the game but didn’t play it quite yet. Instead, I stared at the image of the woman symbol — my muse, the one I hoped to fill the whole screen with — and got some access concentration on her. After about a minute of this, when I closed my eyes I could see an afterimage of the woman symbol. I went and sat on my bed with spine straight and feet planted on the floor for grounding. Hands were rested on my lap with thumb and forefinger pinched together to generate kundalini nerve current flows up the spine and into the woman symbol afterimage. In my mind’s eye, as jhana was attained, the afterimage began to become more and more lifelike, until it was a perfect mental recreation of the original symbol. Then, because I had been staring at a whole screen of symbols, afterimages of the other symbols appeared around it, with the outline of the computer monitor around that. So, my mind had generated a replica of the entire screen based on the afterimage. Then, I implanted the suggestion that ALL the symbols were going to turn into the woman symbol that had already been recreated in the centre — and waited. This is how you do visualization properly — you don’t “force” the object to appear, but rather suggest to yourself that you are going to see it at some point, then just kind of let it filter into awareness. It just drops itself in. Sure enough, all the symbols on the “monitor” just changed into the woman symbol.

Ordinarily, at this point, I would rush back to the computer and hit “spin”. But I didn’t, this time. I stayed with the miraculously-created mental picture of a screen filled with women and allowed it to climb me through the jhanas, to fourth jhana, where I stayed for several minutes before being called for dinner. This whole process took about 30 minutes. The fourth jhana is a highly absorbed, dissociated state with little awareness of the body. One’s awareness is firmly on the object but there is no rapture or delight — the object is just, very matter of factly, the object. This equanimous view of the object creates a kind of “reality reset” where commands are allowed to filter through to the “main reality” without prejudice. This is why attainment of the fourth jhana is said to be the start of the psychic powers (though those with natural talent exist who can conduct magick at lower states of absorption).

After dinner my friend came over. We had a few drinks and I showed him some of the other games. Then we went out, and I forgot all about the magickal night of gambling that awaited me when I got home. Instead, I had the total sense that the intention had been handed over to an old friend who was going to disappear and take care of everything for me behind the scenes. That is the real trick to manifesting desires — knowing that it is all going to be taken care of, and then relaxing into the present moment secure in that knowledge. If I had to train you in magick in one sentence, it would be what I just wrote.

The all-pervading equanimity generated by entry to the fourth jhana lasted the whole night, and I had a bloody great time seeing some old friends who happened to be out. I threw a couple of coins into the pub slots and won about £20. It was weird to feel physical cash in my hand following a win, and nice. I got a peri-peri burger from the vendor next door, which is really, really fucking good food. All in all, I would say I was just loving life at this point.

I got home, set the burger down, poured myself a vodka, and sighed. I loaded up Bier Haus and just smiled at it. No jhana, no forcing it. I pressed spin. Three purple ladies appeared, and two green ladies, giving me five free spins with three sticky wilds. The feature began, and a ton of beer pint symbols filled the screen, giving a massive initial win. I reminded myself to relax and just go with the flow, and that everything was going to be all right. Then, the whole screen filled with women (bar just two spaces), giving a massive 70 additional free spins. The vision had come true. Furthermore, one of these women was purple, meaning I now had four sticky wilds — and their positioning on the first three columns meant that every spin was going to be a win.

I have never felt so relaxed gambling. This was a rare moment where I knew that I was definitely, without doubt, going to be getting everything I ever wanted, every spin, for the next seventy spins. It took about fifteen minutes for the whole thing to play out, during which time my breathing depressed to the contented level of a heroin addict, save for the occasional “Big Win” noises and coins-flying-out-the-fucking-screen when my state would be more reflective of cocaine. Here are selected screenshots showing the progression of the feature and its winnings (sorry about the bottom being cropped off — I just used MS Paint, which is SHIT):

£1766.50 from a single £2 stake. I didn’t even jerk off. I just sat there thinking, “This truly was the best day ever.” And everything I ever wanted had just happened, right there, and I went to bed with a big smile on my face.

These truly are blessed times.

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137 Responses

  1. Aldous says:

    I’ve sat next to Illuminatus, both of us in Jhana, and seen him do this live and in person. First time it happened I jumped out of my chair. It was quite incredible.

  2. James says:

    You fucking degenerate.

    Love ya 😀

  3. Rigz says:

    Euromillions lottery has a £2 stake, try that and see if it works. The Jackpot often goes over £20 million, sometimes even up to £100 million

    • Illuminatus says:

      Haha. I have no desire to win millions of pounds. That would completely fuck up the simulation.

      A few thousand here and there and nobody notices. If you win millions though, suddenly everyone is your friend.

  4. Proph·e·cy says:

    Win the £20 million. Give it away to charity. Change your identity. Render the ability for people to bother you and find you impossible using Magick.

    Winning isn’t a limitation its just an experience. You could sell a company for a billion dollars, give it all away and become a nameless homeless person tomorrow if that was what you desired.

  5. dreammike says:

    I’ve been trying to have lucid dreams and have yet to have any success. I’d love to hear more about developing intent or the ability to ‘know’ you will succeed.

    What I’ve just started to do is pretend each time I wake up and throughout the day that I just HAD a lucid dream. That I was 100% in control and fully aware even though I wasn’t. I’m thinking if I can imagine with intensity a past that didn’t exist it will eventually become my living reality.

    I’d love to know what you think or how you can get over your own disbelief. I’ve heard you need to KNOW and EXPECT with EMOTION that something WILL HAPPEN. But being able to do it honestly when I feel like I’m just bullshitting myself has been really difficult.

    • Illuminatus says:

      I don’t really do lucid dreaming any more as I prefer my mind to be switched off at night. This article might help, though:

      • Illuminatus says:

        In order to get over your own disbelief in anything, you have to progressively challenge that disbelief using “faith tests”. An example for magick would be as follows. Let’s say you didn’t believe much that you had magickal abilities. You would need a test that provided some evidence that you did, but which was not so outlandish that it would rub up too hard against your existing belief system (which would end up blocking it). The “coin test” would be good in that situation. So you visualize finding lots of coins (or even notes) everywhere. Then see if they crop up in your reality. The first week I did this I found £80 in total — notes in the backs of taxis, pound coins on pub floors etc. It can still be explained by luck, so your belief system doesn’t reject it so hard. However, it is still evidence of your magickal ability so this starts to chip away at those disbeliefs.

      • dreammike says:

        I’ve heard from people that have perfected lucid dreaming that it is realer than real life and they can do anything they want in it. Its basically their own Halodeck / 5 senses VR room without limitations.

        Why wouldn’t you want to fuck your favorite pornstar while eating a giant bucket of lobsters. Slice Luke Skywalker in half with his own light saber. Fly naked through a mall shooting death rays at all the overweight piggish mallrats. Ect. Ect. Ect.

        Hell I don’t know. Just being stupid but you get the idea. Why would you just want to shut your brain off. I know you were into it before. Did it just get boring? To me real life is boring. 😛

        • Illuminatus says:

          There are a few reasons I don’t do it any more, but the main one is that I’m not that good at it these days. I started off with a natural talent for lucid dreaming, as a “Super Lucid Dreamer”, the highest level in Charlie Morley’s system. I did not have to work at it very much. During those days I would skip lectures and instead stay in bed dreaming, doing the sorts of things you just said. I became something similar to those guys on Inception who sleep in the equivalent of an opium den, lucid dreaming all day long. This talent however ended one day spontaneously, as I believe I covered in the Charlie Morley blog post. It seems to me that some strong unconscious desire to quit being a lucid dream junkie manifested itself in a termination of the skill.

          Nowadays, I lucid dream maybe 6 times a year. Since insight meditation however, I tend to experience the lucid dream as just another experience. So, I experience “no-self” in the lucid dream. In a way it seems just as much a part of the temporal line of causality as any other experience — in other words, not so special any more. Plus, I have seen more wondrous things in jhana (and the reward chemicals in jhana make that sort of “lucid dream” even more enticing). An example of a jhana-lucid-dream I did once was to set up a spy adventure, then wipe my memory that I had created it, then live the spy adventure till its conclusion. It had airports, suitcases with weapons in, exotic encounters in nightclubs, cocaine, police chases… It probably lasted several hours, each minute of it intensely blissful. I awoke from that dream with a cold opioid sweat and a huge sloppy smile on my face, feeling like I’d been injected with heroin for 3 hours straight. However, then I walked around for the rest of the day not really knowing what was “real” or not.

          That was the other major problem of even regular lucid dreaming: it disturbed sleep and gave something similar to a “jhana hangover” — an ungrounded feeling, like the dream had continued even after I woke up. I have no confidence whatsoever that lucid dreaming does not compromise sleep — it definitely does, in my experience. Keeping the brain flooded with neurotransmitters during periods where those systems are supposed to be shut off is not healthy, in my opinion. I like deep, dreamless sleep where the mind can start again as a blank slate in the morning. The mind needs contrast; if everything is turned up to 10 all the time then that number has no meaning. The day is less meaningful if you only look forward to the night.

          Lucid dreaming is just another way to get back in touch with your true nature as an omnipotent creator consciousness. But doing that all the time is to disregard the game you have set up for yourself to play in the here and now, which you might call the “Human Simulation Game”. I believe when you die you will most likely return to that omnipotent creator state anyway before crafting a new game for yourself. So I intend to enjoy that game since I’m already playing it. But I also have no problem enhancing that game with some magick. 🙂 Just not choosing to change it completely.

          • Illuminatus says:

            P.S. That “spy adventure” jhana-dream — that was one experience of many that told me, our entire lives could just be these pre-scripted narratives that we live through for our own entertainment. All of this could just be a god’s dream. That spy adventure dream was indistinguishable from waking reality, so I have no reason to believe “this” reality isn’t just some dream too. In fact I think it almost certainly is.

            But you will tend to arrive at these kinds of insights (even if they’re BS) by practising mind-made realities a lot, whether that be via lucid dreaming or jhana or OOBE or combinations of these things (they all seem connected somehow anyway).

            • dreammike says:

              Really appreciate your reply. I’m assuming after experiencing some of these things I very well might grow out of them to. 😛

              Speaking of no-self. Meditation. Ect.

              Are you going to write up another post on actualism. I saw you mention it briefly and it piqued my interest.

              I was part of a forum with someone who claimed to be enlightened and he mentioned a very similar strategy of using these type of ‘pointers.”

              “What is experiencing this”
              “What is aware.”


              As a pointer much like “How am I experiencing this moment of being alive.”

              To become free of the ‘self.”

              Do you just do meditation now and let your day to day activity auto-correct around that meditation or do you continue to do some sort of actualism type practice.?

              • Illuminatus says:

                I will be writing a Basic Actualism article for the Start Here section.

                I still use Actualism as an emergency regrounding protocol following extended kundalini, jhanas etc., if I have gone off the rails a little bit (which, since my kundalini awakening has settled right down, has not happened in many months). Actualism really is the best for regrounding.

                I don’t use Actualism specifically in daily life any more, because my awareness follows a similar pattern to Actualism anyway. The main thing I did was to stop doing jhana while in public, because that’s a totally weird thing to do but was a symptom of not feeling comfortable with the present moment. Instead I now do jhana each morning so I feel good and “rebooted” then just go out and do not think about meditation whatsoever, and just settle into the present moment assuming that it’s all going to be fine and that the day will bring me lots of interesting little things to experience — which it invariably does, since it is a kind of autosuggestion to find things amazing whatever they are, which is also kind of the end goal of Actualism.

                I would say the main difference between what I do and Actualism is that Actualism tends to place awareness directly on the sensate world, especially the widefield, as much as possible, to really lock in one’s sense of contentedness and connection. I only tend to do that intentionally when the content of my thoughts is disturbing or counterproductive. But I am happy in my head almost all the time now, so my “need” for Actualism has gone right down. Also, whereas the creator of Actualism set up the practice to remove felt emotions entirely, I took the opposite approach of revelling in them, even the negative ones. Interestingly, it turns out neither of these approaches is in contradiction of no-self, since by removing resistance to negative emotions they become very transient and transparent.

    • Yuki says:

      If you want multiple obes or lucid dreams in a single night, you should read michael raduga book… or try the SSILD technique which is kind of a rip off from michael raduga….

      Basically, you go sleep normally… when you wake up at night.. cycle between 3 things, for a few seconds try to hear the titanuis sound in your ears… then shift attention to physical body feelings, then to whatever u see (blackness?) behind closed eye lids… cycle between all this not more then 1-2 min… then fall asleep normally… the next time u awake no matter how real it might seem just get out of bed, it might be very well the astral body which you will be moving instead of the physical one…

      sometimes u might feel insomanic and try to fall asleep without succeed, this is another sign that could mean u are already sleep but out of body…

      Anyway reality checks and all that crap is a waste of time as they dont give u lucid dreams or obes everytime

      • dreammike says:

        Thank you so much for the recommendation, I actually read that book last week. How has your success been. Are you still playing around with the method?

        Raduga recommended waking up naturally through intention what do you think about using timers that turn off automatically after 3 seconds to Jar yourself awake, for example this timer can be set to go off at weird intervals. You could set 1 go off after 6 hours or have them go off after 6 hours and then in weird intervals every 20ish minutes after then ect…

        I haven’t been able to get myself to wake up ‘naturally yet’

        LINK TO TIMER:

        This one person (tut below) apparently DEILD’s every morning by setting a 3 second alarm that goes off 1 hour before his real waking time every night, and again like Raduga doesn’t move and just to immediately has a lucid dream (goes out of body).


        I’m starting to experiment with both.

        Basically I’m trying everything. Haha.

        As for reality checks. I’ve been trying to do 100% all day state checks instead of reality checks. Instead of checking your state just a couple times a day. I’ve been trying to be 100% aware (as close as possible) on my need to breathe or blink basically as an object of meditation but as a check because you need to do neither in a dream. I’ve heard of people becoming lucid in 100% in their dreams after they nail it. You blink 20 times a minute. How is that for a reality check? 😛 Too early too tell what is or isn’t working. Would love to Hear your thoughts Yuiki. 😛



        • Yuki says:

          Hey dreamike!

          I think Michael is right and the best way to experience obe or lucid dreams is by using techniques when you naturally wake up during the nights, when I have intention to perform a technique upon waking up, usually I am aware of my waking up at nights.

          The best is to wake up and perform a technique while not moving, however like he said, it’s still possible to succeed even without that. I have had some success with the force falling asleep technique which you apply when you move upon awakening, that technique is powerful in itself and can give you out of body experience after applying it for a few seconds (be careful not to fall asleep) so let’s say you apply it for 10-20 seconds, take a bet and get up like you physically would, no matter how much awake you feel you are, it might be that you are out of body already and u can go do ur thing…

          However! if you really have a hard time catching yourself awake during the night, alarm will still help in achieving lucid dreams and obes, so if you dont wanna waste time go for that first XD


          What I like about the ssild cycle method, is that u set yourself to experience obe and lucid dreaming to a future point and you don’t stress out to much, you just do the 3 cycles, fall asleep like you normally do, and hope to have a lucid dream, or an out of body experience the next time you wake up… if not? well you do the cycles again…
          I have a very high success rate with this technique, almost everyday I can get an out of body experience with it, sometimes even multiple…

          Let me give you another story, few days ago I woke up to my alarm, I turned it off, and said to myself 1 more minute plssss,

          Naturally I was performing the force falling asleep technique, after a few seconds I felt my hand and arm bending in very weird ways (there was also vibrations) I though, what the fuck? but then I realized it’s just another sign that I am out of my body, so I got out of bed like I physically would, to find myself in my astral body…

          So yeah the force falling asleep is very powerful!

          I have heard people having good success with the ADA technique, but I think its too much of work to practice it while you can RIGHT NOW (well at night XD) experiencing it without real practice…

          Let me tell you that intention is also very important, just by thinking about lucid dreaming or out of body experiences, the mind will look out for these things and you will notice the symptoms fast when it happens.

          About reality checks… well I have tried it for a long time too, once in a while it only gave me lucid dreams, I though to myself it’s not worth bothering with if it can’t give me at least 2 lucid dreams a week…

          BTW, while michael says to avoid direct techniques, he himself had much success with having out of body experiences in the afternoon, evening, or before sleep, by trying to fall asleep in an uncomfortable posture… I havent had any succeed with it, I cant even fall asleep for naps… but for some this might work

          • dreammike says:

            Thank you for mentioning SSILD I found this article (below) and read up on it (I’d never heard it before) I’m going to try that tonight (with WBTB) and with the indirect method (Michaels technique) if I get any opportunities before the alarm goes off.


            AND I’ll set just 1 (3sec) alarm (so its not overkill) 1 hour before I need to get up. PLUS I’ll try to set it up so I have the ability to sleep 10 hours if need be.

            Damn its going to happen tonight.

            Plus ADA for win.

            Overkill method. 😛

            • Yuki says:

              Actually I am not doing it exactly like it’s written there… I don’t do any wild…. Simply when I naturally wake up at night, I do the cycles for 1 to 2 minutes , and fall back asleep normally… Next timr I wake up I have obe… There is no need to spend so much time on it like they say…

              Just rememeber, if you find yourself laying on bed trying to fall asleep and it takes ages, it might be very well I are already asleep… I have caught myself this way for many times ,

              • dreammike says:

                What kind of reality checks do you do to catch a false awakening? Do you try to levitate out of your body or something like it?

                • Yuki says:

                  No I don’t imagine or visualize anything I just get up like I physically would from bed, or just try to raise my head from bed to see if it’s my physical head moving or astral head

  6. Pat says:

    Best part “I was doing a lot of LSD at the time, and would stay up for 18 hours straight, enjoying non-stop gambling, drug abuse and wanking. All in all, it was probably the best thing I ever did.”

  7. Vick says:


    Best magick article I ever read 😀

  8. Edenist Whackjob says:

    Illuminatus, I’m pondering an intention to have…

    There are several classes of HBs who I’ve never received an undeniable IOI from (although I’ve had plenty of over-exertions).

    Getting a IOI from one of these would signal a break from the current reality. It’s like an internal success barrier would snap, and unlock new possibilities. At least, that’s my theory! It would be like the deja vu moment in the Matrix movie.

    So, should I make an an intention to get IOI from these HBUnobtainables? Or should I just get over myself and stop the mental masturbation?

    • James says:

      Make an intention to be a baaadmotherfucker.

    • Illuminatus says:

      “There are several classes of HBs who I’ve never received an undeniable IOI from (although I’ve had plenty of over-exertions).”

      How are you differentiating between “IOI” and “over-exertion”?

      “So, should I make an an intention to get IOI from these HBUnobtainables? Or should I just get over myself and stop the mental masturbation?”

      If you set that intention you will almost certainly get an IOI, but then the question would be: what would you do about it? The IOI might just reveal something else about yourself. Unless you know you can take an IOI and run with it all the way to the finish line, I would set up some more intentions about what would happen after the IOI.

      One thing I am sure of however is that if you continue calling them “HBUnobtainables” then you will never “obtain” them because they are already ruled out categorically via your use of language (language being a direct reflection of how you conceptualize reality). You are not just shooting yourself in the foot — you are running up and gleefully stamping on a landmine.

      • Edenist Whackjob says:

        An IOI is like a stronger over-exertion in my map. The amygdala flags the over-exertion sure enough, but the IOI proper also has some overt component to it which the cognitive level can point at and go “oh, she’s interested”. Again, just my label for it. Might as well call it clear vs possible IOIs.

        Right, what do you suggest I do with the IOI? My go-to action would be to try and set up a threesome with gf. But, I’m not really interested in the outcome. I just want the fixed category of “HBs I can’t get” to be gone. I want to live in a world where the HB10s are on the menu, even if I don’t choose to indulge. That’s the key word – choice.

        I’m actually mostly interested in shagging HBMilfs, but there the problem is more that I never encounter my particular type in real life, or they are married.

        Yes, it’s no good to have fixed labels like that. Although I doubt I could fix this just with my language. I think the label is indicative of some deeper block.

        • Illuminatus says:

          I would suggest that the language itself creates the block. Call them “HB10s” not “HBUnobtainables”. Imagine if you met a guy who was calling them “HBs-I-Will-Never-Fuck” and you would tell him the same.

          I would also suggest that looking for “really strong IOIs” from HB10s might be akin to waiting at a yellow light waiting for it to turn green forever — women tend to give subtle signals (over-exertions) and hope the man is smart and ballsy enough to do something about it. My point is, if you “need” a really strong signal for you to classify it as an IOI, you might be waiting a long time.

          • Edenist Whackjob says:

            OK, I’ll start doing that!

            HB10s are one class. Another category would be “typical popular Swedish girls”. There, it’s more of a status hang-up. If she has a certain fashion style, my mind flags her as “someone you can’t get” (presumably based on being Omega in high school, and not friends with the cool kids). Sometimes this overlaps with HB10ness of course.

            Ideas on how to boost ability to detect over-exertions?

            • Illuminatus says:

              You will never know if an IOI is “real” (even blatant ones could be a scam). However, just assuming more signals are IOIs will lead to more action will lead to more results. You only “can’t get” those girls until you can. And getting them requires a lot of doing. You just barrel through the uncertainty phase till results start aligning with the intention. That goes for most things.

              • Edenist Whackjob says:

                Interesting bit from your post:

                “Girls who are not used to screening, who you will see more of these overexertions from, include: fatties and less hot girls who don’t get a lot of male attention, and YOUNGER girls who are inexperienced with men. This latter category is cool because many of them are very hot and simply haven’t yet learnt the art of a) Screening for alphas and b) Hiding their sexual arousal.”

                Would you say the upper-tier HBs are better at hiding sexual arousal? Is it because they receive more IOIs from men, and so have to hide their emotions better?

                Also, would it be possible to use telepathy to read their IOIs anyway, hiding or not? 😀

                • Illuminatus says:

                  I am not sure whether hotter girls are actually better at hiding their sexual arousal, or if it just takes a higher grade of man to elicit that response from them; it’s probably a bit of both.

                  Hotter girls tend to take male attention for granted, so do less overall to “ping” for it.

                  Around the right guy, though, pretty much any girl will begin acting goofy to some degree or other, regardless of her hotness.

          • Edenist Whackjob says:

            Is it the case that girls below HB8 give off stronger IOIs? Does strength of IOI-giving diminish with hotness?

      • Edenist Whackjob says:

        I’m going to report back here if/when it happens btw. Just writing here might be influencing the process, yes?

      • Edenist Whackjob says:

        “The IOI might just reveal something else about yourself. Unless you know you can take an IOI and run with it all the way to the finish line, I would set up some more intentions about what would happen after the IOI.”

        The thing is, I KNOW deep inside I could fuck a HB10 good and proper and get her addicted. It’s just frustrating never getting to prove it.

        I’ve had several “I just know I’m right” things like that before in life, and it’s the best feeling when you’re vindicated.

        Maybe this is all some certainty-trip deep down? I want to know I’m right.

  9. Edenist Whackjob says:

    This is interesting:

    Do you think it constitutes some kind of occult spontaneous tech?

    • Illuminatus says:

      Unfortunately, or fortunately depending upon your inclination, this is phenomenologically valid. The Universe is a giant habit. If something has happened once, it is more likely to happen again.

      This is the same phenomenon as when I first starting getting regular visual jhanas and would see golden Buddhas — before knowing that what I was doing was jhana, or that seeing golden Buddhas is a common vision in jhana. I recreated the actions of my meditating ancestors and manifested their results — probably originally caused by millions of meditations upon golden Buddha statues. So, the golden Buddha phenomenon is “in” the Universal hologram, waiting to be pulled out like a habit by using the triggers for that habit.

      It is therefore conceivable that accidentally recreating the triggers for Kek could have summoned his habit-impression.

  10. nigx says:

    Illuminatus great blog! I’m always looking for “laymans” experiences about jhanas and insight, so i will keep checking yours frequently!

    Some related jhana questions:

    I’m doing concentration practice about 6 months constantly, i try to do at least one hour a day, the progress is fine, i mean probably i think i can get “access concentration” (but not 100% shure if it is) basically the sensation i get is that the black of my eyelids turn whiter (but i’m not shure if is just that i relax more and maybe unconciously i open my eyes a little bit?) and of course that comes along with a better concentration overall at the target (my breath), the thing is after i get that stage my breath is very subtle .. so at that instance i don’t know where y must put my focus on ..? the new visuals? .. look for some pleasent sensation and try to focus at it? ..

    Something that keeps happening sometimes is that i get my body very warm sometimes when i get to that stage, i mean is not very pleseant (so i think is not jhana) ,

    Ther rule of thumb i have is “if you need to ask yourself if it’s jhana, then it isnt'”

    Some thoughts about it?

    I must be sincere that i crave a little bit for what it feels like to experiences the jhanas (i know that makes more difficult to let go and get it) because i read that can be as good (and sometimes) even good that hard drugs like cocaine, heroine etc? hard to believe that but hey, i want to experience it for myself ..

    What is your experiences about the similarities about drugs and jhanas?

    And the effects you can get in the frists jhanas (especially the first and second) the “afterglow” keeps going a few more hours? or is something that ends when the meditations ends?

    For example can you use the jhana to replace a good cup of coffee and the mornings or something like that?

    Sorry for my english!

    • Illuminatus says:

      “I’m doing concentration practice about 6 months constantly, i try to do at least one hour a day, the progress is fine, i mean probably i think i can get “access concentration” (but not 100% shure if it is) basically the sensation i get is that the black of my eyelids turn whiter (but i’m not shure if is just that i relax more and maybe unconciously i open my eyes a little bit?) and of course that comes along with a better concentration overall at the target (my breath), the thing is after i get that stage my breath is very subtle .. so at that instance i don’t know where y must put my focus on ..? the new visuals? .. look for some pleasent sensation and try to focus at it? ..”

      It’s not jhana, and probably not even access concentration. The white light behind the eyes tends to appear after any prolonged period of trying to focus the mind with eyes closed. It happens even if you just daydream for a long period.

      There is a white light, call the “nimitta”, that appears during access concentration, which signifies that jhana is imminent — but it is more brilliant and ethereal, like it is coming from nowhere yet everywhere at once.

      The problem with doing an hour meditation is that if you do not get jhana within about the first 30 minutes then you probably aren’t going to, and you will end up getting that white light you talked about and hoping something is going on. Well, this kind of meditation is definitely better than no meditation at all. However without jhana you are just going to get tired and bored.

      The trick to getting access concentration and then jhana is to pick a single point on your nose. So, do you know what a singularity is? It is a single point in space that has no width, height or length. It is even smaller than a pinhead, since it has no volume. Imagine one of these single points is present at the bridge of your nose — and keep your awareness there, and only there, for the entire meditation.

      Also, FORGET THE BREATH. The problem with these concentration meditation guides is that beginners don’t know what to do during the pauses in between breaths, or when their breathing slows down, because suddenly there are no sensations to keep their awareness on, so they “lose” the breath. Well, do not make the breath the main object to begin with: make the singularity at the bridge of your nose your object. Yes, you should also breathe, and notice the sensations of the breath at that point. However, even during the pause between breaths, there are ALWAYS sensations at that single point at the bridge of the nose. As long as you keep awareness there, you will detect those sensations.

      If you do this right you should start to feel good feelings quickly — and feel “elevated” by them. Then the nimitta will appear in the “cavern” of your awareness, flashing at the sides. Then jhana will arise and yes it is like being in another place, and the feelings are indescribable.

      Just keep your awareness on that single point on your bridge of your nose; that is the only instruction. It is difficult to do, and you will lose it all the time, but the only solution to that is practice.

      “What is your experiences about the similarities about drugs and jhanas?”

      The only drugs that really have anything to do with jhana are psychedelics like LSD. But you would need to already have lots of jhana experience, and LSD experience, to draw a comparison.

      In terms of bliss, jhana is better and “cleaner”-feeling than any drug.

      “And the effects you can get in the frists jhanas (especially the first and second) the “afterglow” keeps going a few more hours? or is something that ends when the meditations ends?”

      The longer you were in jhana for, and the better quality of jhana, the longer the afterglow will tend to last. You can feel good all day from a morning jhana.

      When you are a beginner, sudden jumps in jhana skill can give you a buzz that lasts an entire week or maybe longer. When I first did the kasina afterimage jhana and could see galaxies and fractals appearing in my mind, I was buzzed for at least a week — and went around excitedly telling everybody what I’d seen, which was a weird thing to do since most people don’t meditate and don’t even know those things are possible. Most people don’t want to be told anything other than what the morning papers told them, let alone that there are whole other worlds and dimensions of being to explore.

      “For example can you use the jhana to replace a good cup of coffee and the mornings or something like that?”

      Personally I find it hard to gather the concentration required for jhana first thing in the morning. Also, caffeine tends to make jhana easier. So I do jhana after a coffee and a shower. There is no reason why I couldn’t have a cold shower, then do jhana, then skip the coffee — but I like coffee.

      • James says:

        I did bridge of the nose a few times, although with a wider sensation area (about a whole inch, guess that was too big) and I just had a really strong pressure/sensation feeling on the bridge of my nose for like a week off of one session

      • Ram says:

        So, for someone who’s still trying to reach first jhana, do you not recommend practicing for more than 30 minutes at a time? I do feel like practicing for forty-five minutes or an hour has been improving my concentration, but I’m still not able to hit even access concentration pretty much ever (though I’ll now try shifting from the breath to the “singularity” on the nose).

        Also, do you want anyone to read and edit the new concentration guide when you’re done with it? I have a useless English degree and a constant greed for tips on getting to jhana. 🙂

        • Illuminatus says:

          “So, for someone who’s still trying to reach first jhana, do you not recommend practicing for more than 30 minutes at a time? I do feel like practicing for forty-five minutes or an hour has been improving my concentration, but I’m still not able to hit even access concentration pretty much ever (though I’ll now try shifting from the breath to the “singularity” on the nose).”

          My concern is that, if access concentration and jhana factors are not reached early, they won’t arise during the session, meaning the hour is spent training in poor technique. I’ve sat there for an hour with nothing happening before, and it is a technique issue. It is frustrating and I question its value.

          Alternatively, however, jhana states can be reached just by sitting for a long period, but this is more to do with a progressive letting go of mental formations, and this can be achieved by “body scanning”, placing awareness on the widefield, and also monitoring the breath at the nose — so a kind of high-skill breath mindfulness. Jhana states can definitely arise this way (though it is not guaranteed) — these are the kinds of jhanas that teacher Ajahn Brahm seems to talk about. The state is as nice as a direct concentration practice jhana, but the focus is rather wider and more inclusive, in my experience.

          I will cover the different routes to jhana state, such as the above, in the new guide. However, I don’t really want to confuse anyone at this point: the shortest path to jhana is mastering single-point awareness, which I described with my “singularity” comment in this thread.

          Kasina meditation can also be extremely powerful (the kasina image provides the single-point awareness) and might be worth trying as different people respond to different modalities — e.g. I am very visual and found kasina meditation easy. People who are really into video games like first-person shooters, where visual awareness is highly attuned, might respond better to kasina meditation (though this is just an untested hypothesis at this point).

          “Also, do you want anyone to read and edit the new concentration guide when you’re done with it? I have a useless English degree and a constant greed for tips on getting to jhana.”

          I already have some volunteers who I know well. Thanks for the offer though. 🙂

          • dreammike says:

            I tried this meditation last night and some confusion popped up.

            1. When you talk about focusing on the bridge of your nose when you put up a guide could you put up a picture with a head and a picture pointing where exactly. This may sound stupid put a put that question into google and the photos I got all pointed at several different points along the nose.

            2. Do you focus on the sensation/feeling of your nose in that area, and basically focus on the tinniest pinprick point of sensation (tactile sensation) there.

            3. What do you do with your eyes. Keep them open and blurred (don’t pay attention to where they are looking put keep them straight ahead?), or close them, ect.

            4. Should you still try to keep some awareness on your breath coming in or out or should if possible try to pool 100% of my focus on the smallest point of tactile sensation at the bridge of my nose.

            5. Can you lay on your back and do this to hit Jhana? It is impossible for me to lay on my back and fall asleep. I know preferably I know should sit but I always get back pain that is extremely distracting.

            Again, you rock. Just some points of confusion that I’m assuming you probably cover really well in the guide you’re working on.

            • Illuminatus says:

              Yeah, all of that is going to be covered in the guide, and there will be pictures. If I answer each point here I’m basically invalidating the purpose of writing the guide. You will just have to wait, or book a Skype session.

              But I will say: do NOT lie on your back. A straight upward spine is very important in channelling the energy required for jhana.

            • Yuki says:

              I always lay on my back and hit the so called hard jhana dozens of times, for me a straight posture is very uncomfortable, since the first time I started to meditate I hit hard jhanas… It’s not only about a tight focus on the breath sensations but ur breathing pattern needs to be controlled , it’s kind of like rapid breathing I would say… Try to stay away from guides that tell u to “watch the breath” “don’t control the breath” they suck and will make u lose progress and only experienece the so called soft jhanas which I don’t consider to be a jhana but with a modified breathing pattern and tight focus u only will hit hard jhana within 20 min….. At most 45 but if it takes that long it means ur concentration isnt tight enough

              • Illuminatus says:

                Good post.

                The main problem with lying on the back is that half of beginners are just going to fall asleep. It sends various cues to the body that we do not want.

                Personally, my spine needs to be vertical in order to handle the energy events that happen on entry to jhana. If lying in bed, my body will “buckle” during that time. When 2nd jhana is hit I can relax back down, and that will almost certainly send me into some hybrid jhana/lucid dream. It is not what I am looking for from standard practice, though I will do it sometimes just to go on an adventure. It’s basically like free LSD except even more extravagant.

                ” It’s not only about a tight focus on the breath sensations but ur breathing pattern needs to be controlled , it’s kind of like rapid breathing I would say…”

                Personally I control my breath in time with the peaks and flows of the energy rushing up into my head. It is hard to describe. Essentially, however, I am always sending some kind of “breath” over the singular point of awareness (which is usually the bridge of the nose to trigger first jhana; the third eye tends to take over during third jhana but that is just my personal experience). So my breathing would look strange to an outsider. It is kind of like how you catch your breath while on the brink of orgasm, and keep kind of “cycling” it to bring yourself over the edge. If people pay attention to what their breathing does when they orgasm, they can begin to get serious clues about how to copy that for generating rapid jhana. It is like mentally grabbing the bridge of the nose then pulling air back and forth over it is some kind of direct link to the reward circuit (no doubt the origin of the phrase, “sweet smell of victory” — the dopamine-linked nerve in the bridge of the nose).

                When the breathing is diminished in the later stages, you can still send a “breathe in” signal through that point of awareness in the nose. In fact, in deeper jhana, most “breathing” does not bring in air at all but is just a breathing signal being constantly sent on a loop. With lots of mindfulness, you can come to see that nerve current flow in that nerve in the bridge of the nose — it is this upward fountain that the mind turns into spinning Buddhas and other closed-eye hallucinations.

                So I do not particularly have a “pause” between breaths because I’m always breathing in some way. But, to answer dreammike’s question as to what to focus on between breaths, well there is ALWAYS some activity in that nerve in the bridge of the nose — just keep your awareness there and it will find some sensations to “latch onto”. If you can’t find any, just assume they are there and look for them with your awareness. It doesn’t matter much if you find any, since just by looking in that single point you are maintaining the one-pointed awareness that will bring access concentration. As I just tried to explain, however, my method is to always keep some air flowing over that spot (by modifying my breathing pattern) until, at a minimum, 1st jhana is reached. After that, I am working mainly with “signals” (sensations, nerve current flows) in that nerve in the bridge of the nose as breathing tends to get depressed after 1st jhana (in actuality, the breathing is just super-super-super SLOW; the body is constantly breathing in on a very long loop).

                Yuki, what breathing pattern do you use? This is perhaps the most crucial part of the guide, and is the crux of the method. This single step is largely the difference between years wasted “watching the breath” and diving into jhana in a short time. I personally had a natural talent for this, and my breathing pattern “found me” and led me to jhana within only about 2 weeks of practice (and I did not even know what a jhana was — I just kept doing what felt good while meditating).

                • Yuki says:

                  Ur right about the bridge of the node, while I had success entering jhana by taking the nostrils as a whole, it’s choosing a small spot at the bridge of the nose (impression is that it’s inside the nostrils more) that makes my mind fall with a boom into jhana and sometimes u need to “be on the venge of orgasm” to get there… In my opinion it all depends if u watch the “right ” spot at the bridge…

                  So yeah I don’t have any pauses in my breathing too, I try to makethe inhale and exhale breath more on the hard side when inhaling and exhaling (also it makes u feel the sensations more pronounce )

                  So yeah usually I would control the inhale and exhale this way until it becomes automatic , stressing the exhale only and letting the inhale automatic feel more comfortable … But eventually when deep enough ur breathing becomes automatic and it’s like ur body start breathing itself and even if u were to stress the inhale it will still feel comfortable .

                  Personally I feel stressing the inhale and exhale both produde jhana stronger and faster andd jhana falls on u with a boom… The downside is that sometimes it feels uncomfortable and u need to rest for a few seconds … But again when deep enough u will feel those symptoms vanishing.

                  One other thing is, the breaths aren’t long at all! They need to be kept quite short , notsoft, strong enough to let the mind stay pefectly on the breath sensations.

                  One other thing is that intention to reach jhana should be very strong! So know that every inhale and exhale u feel ata small spot at the bridge will move ur mind 1 step closer to jhana! So “count” as much breaths as possible.

                  There might be case wherr after 18 minutes u will not feel the slightest energetic symptoms in ur body (rapture etc) but after 5 seconds jhana will hit u like an explosion went off (I think it starts with the back of the head)

                  Also I think it’s important force yourself away from body sensations, don’t pay attention to the bliss either , it will only make it stronger than usingit as object..

                  However in some cases when the flavours and bliss are very strong they can be usedas object and take u to jhana (this should take not take more than 10 seconds)

                  • Yuki says:

                    btw, when you in jhana eventually the jhana energy will use itself up… however during this time, even being in jhana for 3 seconds you will feel INCREDIBLE BLISS (sorry but words can’t describe it) you will feel TOTALLY BLISSED OUT, it’s SATISFYING BLISS, you will feel Its ENOUGH! after a while when the jhana show fades away you will be left with the biggest smile on ur face, you will feel totally blissed out, you just wanna “be”, you won’t feel the urge to want to experience the next 20-30 minutes, just like after a sexual ejaculation/orgasm you won’t feel the need for sexual arousal.

                    note: even if you tried to think about something it won’t work, you can’t even feel your physical body or any external noise, the only noise u will be hearing is your inner noise which sounds like buzzing (this is another symptom you know you close to jhana)

                    so to make it clear there are 2 ways my mind falls into jhana:

                    1. out of nowhere a very hard forced force pulls me, an explosion starts at the back of the head, like a chain reactor it will completely absorb forcefully and strongly, when I say strongly believe me it’s strongly your entire being (sometimes you will feel a little bit nauseas, usually it’s when the energy starts hitting the chest area… litteraly its impossible to stay on the breath when this happens, because the force pull pulls you so strongly into jhana that its just impossible keeping the breath as object…

                    2. you use breath as object until you are on the venge of orgasm, however keep going, your muscles will contract (another sign you are about to enter a full blown jhana absportion, eventually many body parts will be filled with bliss, like your face, third eye, even the breath itself… however you keep going until eventually something similar happens like what I wrote ABOVE, the difference between the 2 is that the first one takes you completely by surprise out of nowhere, while this step you feel you are very close to hitting jhana.

                    usually for me a very bright light with a star merges with the breath and usually that’s where the reactor explosion happens

                  • Illuminatus says:

                    This is all very similar to my experience — we seem to be on the same page.

                    Can you tell me a little about your history with meditation — how you got into it, how you learned, how long you’ve been doing it?

                    “However in some cases when the flavours and bliss are very strong they can be usedas object and take u to jhana (this should take not take more than 10 seconds)”

                    Have you figured out what can create consistency in those bliss flavours being strong and immediate? Sometimes I sit there and barely need any strong focus and those flavours will arise immediately, and I just let them carry me straight to jhana on basically an uninterrupted path. Other days I have to fight and throw lots of willpower at the method just to get a hint of those flavours. So far the main thing I have noticed is that INFLAMMATION will block bliss/pleasure and make jhana far harder — so this could be sickness (e.g. I have had a bad throat the last few days which has made jhana difficult) but mainly, in my case, TOXINS such as alcohol (which can reduce ability for several days after a hangover). But even when I have been healthy with no toxins sometimes I have to fight for the pleasure signals.

                    • Yuki says:

                      around 3-4 years ago I felt kind of depressed and since I was already into spirituality I though to myself, could meditation bring you to mystical states? I wasn’t so sure about all that, so I googled here and there, and eventually knew about the jhana states, I read ajahn brahm book a bit and decided to practice… his guidelines were just to watch the breath and not to control the breath… well I found this very hard to do, the part with not controlling the breath… so I just did what I could do the best, just breath in and out consciously, I realized the more I control it without pauses and hard so I could feel the sensations in bold ways, the more my mind would stick with the object like glue, (watching the breath and not controlling the breath, your minds doesn’t have a tight grab, it’s very loss)

                      So I did all that and eventually out of nowhere some bliss sensations arised in my stomach and chest, it was strong enough to take my entire being to experience a full absorption… it always comes with very strongmuscle tremors (mostly on the face)

                      Since then I have been meditating 1-3, 20-30-45-60 sessions a day just to get into these states again and I did… there was a point that I lose confidence to where to place my attention, and I didn’t get to hit jhana, then eventually I “remembered” how I did it and jhana start hitting me again.

                      I believe it’s definitely the breath pattern that is what decides how strong the bliss and jhana states are gonna be, maybe part of it has to do with CO2…

                      I have noticed in soft jhanas the muscles are very loss and relax, while when you use a more forcefully approach your body muscles get more contracted until you hit the absorption state, and then it “uncontracts” by itself. I am sometimes experiencing myself what can bring those states even faster and stronger, like eye movements, mental actions etc… but in the end I find that I don’t need to do much but just to tell myself to put attention on every inhale and exhale sensation until something happens… some sessions, usually mornings I don’t get far but I still get in a very deep states, while I consider it a failure of a session, I still think many people can’t experiencing it that deep, so I should give myself credit for it… maybe it will seem selfish, but I am quite proud of myself.

                      u are right, lets say I have meditated for 20 minutes and nothing happens, and I just lay on my bed for 10 minutes, just observing my psyche, sometimes all of a sudden I might feel blissful rain drops falling on my forehead, then I observe that and it takes me to jhana… those energetic pleasure factors aren’t the soft kinds, the ones that can grow but can’t grow enough in intensity, they are the ones that when observing they blow you away very fast and strongly!

                      like I said before I am %100 sure the fast pase of the breath and how strong u apply it is what makes it hit me so strongly and many times out of nowhere like some kind of switch got turned on in my mind … during the session the breath pattern might change automaticaly a bit, like I inhale and exhale like some kind of hungry animal. sometimes manipulatin this to short or deeper stronger breaths triggers jhana too, I feel my way to it.

                      It hits me strongly when I also stress the inhale and not only the exhale, but sometimes it makes feel uncomfortable and I need to adjust it to make it more comfortable, it still works for me if I feel uncomfortable, but it should be to the point I can still be with my breath and not return to normal breathing.

                      I am still experimenting and observing my psyche what exactly is that I am doing conciously and unconsciously that brings me there so hard.

                      But about the muscle contraction, I think it can be a very important key to know more of it’s nature, like will me putting attention on the breath while manually contracting some of my muscles produce this result as well? who knows, worth to try I guess, or perhaps in the end my only job is to put attention on the breath and the body will do the rest for me (which it always does XD)

                      Thanks for sharing your experiences, so far! it’s nice to see other people analysis everything deeply and what makes this or that work, and the whole nerves circuits related to it…

                    • Yuki says:

                      btw, I believe that when jhana hits me from nowhere all of a suddenly with a boom while attention on breath is because of 2 reasons:

                      1. Your mind/body repress itself somehow (maybe because forcefully you keep thoughts and distractions out and keep yourself like glue with full awareness on the object, that eventually it “explodes” and does it…

                      but one I find more likely is:

                      2. the middle of the bridge is a sweet spot, just feeling the sensations there you feel ecstatic, hell the bridge feels ecstatic alone… now when u keep attention there, it might hit for example some nerve (the fast breath pace without pause and constant attention contributes to all of this, eventually the mind might hit the exact “sweet spot” of a set of nerves perhaps, and make it go “overload” and just pull you to it beyond your control.

                      also probably has to do something with the eyes moving to the middle.

                      I have tried many nostril spots, small, big, and no places brings me there like a very small spot at the bridge of the nostril

                    • dreammike says:

                      Have you read anything about Holotropic Breathing?

                      What both you and Yuki seem to be talking about seem very similar. Forced in and out breathing rapidly with no pausing on out or in breaths.

                      It was developed/used by Stanislav Grof who originally was researching LSD until it was outlawed.

                      HOW TO DO IT:

                      1) Full deep breaths – make each breath full and deep, breathing into the “bottom” of your lungs so that when you breathe in, your belly should move out a bit.

                      2) Continuous, “circular” breathing – the breathing should be done in such a way where there is no gaps in the breath..i.e. you should not be holding your breath at any point. When your lungs are almost full, you want to turn the breath around and start exhaling. When your lungs are empty, you want to immediately turn the breath around and start inhaling. This creates a breath pattern whereby you are always breathing in or breathing out, creating a circle of breath.

                      3) Faster than normal – You also want to breathe a bit faster than you normally would. However, you do not want to breathe so fast that you create tension in your body…your body, and especially your lungs, should be relaxed, without straining, so that the breath can be maintained for a long period of time without tiring yourself out.

                      4) Mouth vs Nose Breathing – It is easier to move air quickly through the mouth and mouth breathing tends to be more supportive of emotional release so most people find that breathing in and out through the mouth supports their process better than nose breathing. However, some people find that mouth breathing is uncomfortable for them in which case nose breathing is fine also.

                      But, again, after 15 or 20 minutes, everyone’s body will generally find their own rhythm and way of breathing. There are as many breathing styles as there are breathers.


                      I haven’t done anything with it yet because I have a fear (perhaps unfounded) of possible brain damage.

                      But it definitely from what I’ve heard put you into an altered state of consciousness in minutes.

                      PODCAST LINKS:

                      Skip to about 10 minutes into each as its mostly ads.

                      Interview with a doctor that uses it in therapy sessions


                      People from the podcast experiment with it:


                    • Illuminatus says:

                      Thanks Yuki. We have very similar histories.

                      “I have tried many nostril spots, small, big, and no places brings me there like a very small spot at the bridge of the nostril”

                      Do you mind getting a diagram of the nose and drawing a dot on it to show us where the exact point is, please? I ask because you are now saying “nostril” instead of “nose” making me think you are aiming for somewhere between the nostrils (whereas I am aiming for the bony structure between the eyes). Thanks!

                    • Yuki says:

                      Ah sorry I wasn’t clear enough… Yeah I am using the boney bridge between the nostrils too, however I try to feel the sensations more inside the middle of the bridge than on the outside skin of it, I dont know if that’s even possible for air to reach there, but I try togo more in depth if that makes sense

                    • Illuminatus says:

                      @Yuki: Thanks for the clarification. Yes, that is the exact same spot I use!

            • dreammike says:

              Okay here is where someone talks about the danger of his method of Holotropic Breathing.

              PODCAST LINK – Fast forward to 17:30 minutes –


              Hypocapnia – Brain damage

              LINK: Pubmed

              • Illuminatus says:

                Hi dreammike,

                That Holotropic Breathing sounds nothing like what I do — and I don’t like the sound of that brain damage. 🙂

                There are many yogic breathing techniques which have been perfected for thousands of years, if anyone wants to try this style of intentional breath manipulation (which will change the neurotransmitter configuration of the brain and may help concentration meditation, which was its original intended purpose). Kapalbhati is very good for creating stimulation.

  11. Edenist Whackjob says:

    Illuminatus, is it advisable to do meditation while walking if trying to attain jhana?

    You used to write about “presence walks” but I guess that is something else?

    The reason I ask: it would help if I could combine morning walks with meditation.

    • Illuminatus says:

      You would need strong existing jhana skills to get jhana while walking, though it’s definitely possible and I occasionally do it to experience strange perceptual phenomena (such as apparently being able to see really far into the distance). You would need to be already able to get first jhana on either a visual object or the breath in sitting practice before you attempted this.

      • Edenist Whackjob says:

        OK. But if I do meditation while walking, will it at least carry over to the seated object meditation? Just wondering if I should spend my morning walks thinking or meditating 🙂

        “such as apparently being able to see really far into the distance”

        Interesting, do you think the movie/series Limitless depicts a jhanaic state?

        • Illuminatus says:

          Some concentration skill will develop if you keep your awareness on a single point in the distance while walking. You will probably also find that your posture becomes magically straighter, too.

          The visual on Limitless where the peripheral vision drops in as clearly as the forward vision is definitely achievable using concentration meditation. I have had it several times. I believe my “object” was the entire visual field — starting with the periphery, and trying to “gather up” the whole visual field into the centre as though I was looking at it all at once. At some kind of tipping point, the whole visual field becomes a single picture. The centrefield appears to extend on unto infinity, somewhat like a tunnel — except the periphery of the picture is still present (and completely clear).

          As I have tried to make clear, however, you need strong concentration skills ALREADY to do these things, and sitting practice is far more appropriate to build those skills.

  12. Chrome says:

    While lingering in Jhana, particularly in the pauses between the inhale and exhale and before the next inhale, the soles of my feet begin to become hotter, is this normal? I’m currently using concentration on my breath as a venue to enter into jhana, then abandoning it upon entry and focusing on the subtle elements of the mind state (equanimity, the emptiness. I occasionally hit what I believe to be 2nd jhana the longer I keep my focus on the mind space and simply breathing softly – soft breath feels very good in this state, similar to when I tried 1p LSD for the first time..

    However, is there a way to truly measure what stages the Jhana is going through? The lights flicker (usually yellowish) and expand outwards upon entry, and sort of revolve subtly when I am in the mind state, it flickers very violently sometimes with the lights sort of exploding behind my eyes (in the beginning my eyelids would forcefully flutter, now it’s sort of softer?) Mental verbiage has become very quiet since consistent jhana practice, it’s kind of like they are very deeply muffled – with time after jhana completely without thought. There isn’t really a voice but just thought patterns that I can dismiss upon choosing. My mental state has changed dramatically, along with a few other changes that I’ve picked up. This is pretty long and doesn’t really even scratch the number of questions I have, I’ll probably buy an hour of coaching relatively soon instead.

    Cheers Edd.

    • Edenist Whackjob says:

      While I haven’t attained jhana, I also get the tingling in my feet (and in my crotch as well). The feeling is that reality is getting more real, somehow.

    • Illuminatus says:

      To classify a state as access concentration I personally require it to have a sudden, palpable mental silence. Access concentration itself is a profoundly altered state, with many similarities to jhana. Then you have to hold that and jhana will arise by itself. The only verbal thoughts I will have during this whole time are thoughts related to the practice, e.g. “There’s access concentration… there’s first jhana…” Those thoughts are very, very infrequent. I kind of wish I didn’t have them at all. The progression through second, third, fourth etc. usually has no verbal thoughts the whole time since I’m so keyed into the energetic process of directing awareness at the object.

      The thing about diagnosing jhana is that there are so many permutations WITHIN jhana. You have many options within jhana. You can go into the pleasure and make that the object and have it increase to heroin levels. That will tend to limit you to third jhana, however, since you have to abandon pleasure to reach fourth.

      The best thing you can do to establish the classical sequence of jhanas, and to really get to know that sequence, is to only focus upon the object. So, the lights and the pleasure and all that will be erupting around you, and you may be tempted to wander off into those elements of the state, but you will be interrupting or diverging from the classical progression if you do so. Instead, acknowledge pleasure etc. but ignore it as an object; there is only one object, the single-point awareness at the bridge of your nose (or wherever you put it). Retain focus only on that object, and the classical sequence of jhanas will play out (though this may still take some time). Don’t analyse it while meditating; just repeat the sequence dozens of times then you will be able to analyse it after meditation by remembering the markers that arose.

      I would be glad to see you in a coaching session!

  13. Mayath says:

    I find Loving-Kindness Meditation is a really easy way to hit the first and second Jhana. When I hit the first Jhana using it, I had only been meditating for a few weeks and knew fuck all about Jhanas or anything about meditation.

    It’s a practice that should be promoted more I think. It’s a good way to develop Piti(meditative Joy) and tranquility. Focusing on the breath can be a very dry practice, especially in the beginning.

    The only negatives I find with Loving Kindness is that while it leaves me blissed out and happy, I don’t feel the cognitive developments I feel I’m developing, while I’m focusing on the breath. There’s more “skill” involved working with the breath, at least for me.

    There’s more training to focusing on the breath and longer lasting benefits. Following Upasaka Culadasa’s system, like I do, I was able to eradicate dullness and distractions when I focus on something. These changes feel more permanent than the bliss of LK meditation.

    Also I haven’t been able to reach third or fourth Jhana with LK meditation because the ‘love euphoria’ I’m cultivating is my object and it’s a bit harder to drop, though I do get to a very contented, settled down stage which could be third Jhana, I don’t know.

    I tend to incorporate it into my own 1 hour practice which looks something like this:

    1: Awareness of anything coming into my present awareness.

    2: Body Scan.

    3: Focus/awareness of the in and out breaths where the breath enters the nostrils.

    4: Focus on the whole “body” of the breath. It becomes harder to discern the in and out streams of the breath. Instead The breaths at the nostrils becomes very enlarged and takes up the majority of my attention. Not a restricted feeling at all even though I’m focusing on one particular area. The breath feels “outside” of myself and I can feel it nearly better than my own body. Minor thoughts try to take my attention but their easily ignored.

    I can enter the First Soft Jhana here on a good day, with the breath alone, but I don’t feel like my ” energy” is strong enough yet. I haven’t mastered it. It only lasts for 10-15 minutes and while it’s great fun, I get bored of it quickly. It’s not consistent and if it’s not a consistent thing in meditation I don’t consider someone an expert or master at that stage if they can’t do it regularly.

    On a “bad” day I use Loving Kindness at this stage to develop bliss and euphoria and I can enter soft Jhana then.

    5: I go back to my body and I breath with the whole body, finding all breath sensations everywhere, from the crown of my head, to my ears, belly, Spine and toes. The brain has a limited capacity for attention so I just try to overload it. This feels like a great way for me to develop my energy. I become very aware of it on a subtle level. It’s tingly and vibrational. My whole being feels like the breath vibrating. Very cool.

    I try to catch a good, blissful, pleasurable vibration and I use that to enter the whole body Jhanas.

    @nigx: What’s the quality of your attention like? Is there dullness, much distraction? If you’ve got these things, you’re not reaching Access concentration. The same qualities that are in the first Jhana are in Access concentration. You gotta have meditative joy, bodily pleasure and focused attention on your object. LK meditation is a good way to develop meditative joy and pleasure.

    Because your getting some “warm” feelings, why don’t you jump to LK meditation when you get them? This warm feeling might be undeveloped Piti.

    Use the warm feelings as a foundation and remember/imagine any super happy, euphoric feelings, over them and if you can build on them until they overtake you.

    In my honest opinion, with six months training, if you’ve not eradicated gross distractions, subtle distractions and gross and subtle dullness you might not be able to hit the first Jhana yet. Do you know what “stage” your concentration is at because it’s only accessible from certain stages.

    It might be even a little “dangerous” to your practice to try hit Jhana at a low stage. You could just get into a dull trance state which might feel very nice and fool yourself that your hitting Jhana. This was a problem I had for a while, unfortunately. I had to train myself out of that. Dullness is a bitch and if you cultivate it accidentally, it can affect youin real life. For a while there, I had a really bad case of brain fog which left me feeling so retarded.

    Low stage people can hit Jhanas occasionally and it’s by no means possible but if it’s not a regular thing, then they haven’t mastered it and it’s not worth listening to them.

    You might be able to hit the whole body Jhanas though and they can give you a taste of what the “real” Jhanas feel like. They uixken the development of your concentration skills. If you can hit the fourth whole body Jhana, you should be able to hit the first Jhana.

    So if you want to know if your actually at a stage where you can hit the first soft Jhana, see if you can reach the fourth whole body Jhana.

    Nothing compares to that first time hitting the first Jhana. Hope you get it soon Man.

    @Illuminatus: Is there an energetic quality to thought or mental movements?

    Lately in my meditations, I’ve been having this strange experience, which I haven’t been able to discover through research what it is. Basically, my thoughts rarely bother me in my meditation, they appear quickly and my attention alternates from my object to the and back in the space of a second.

    As I get deeper, my mind feels quieter, more settled. I’m not having thoughts in the traditional sense. There more like mental movements, energy, like a thought moving in my head. I feel like their a thought but they have no content. I also know that if I examined them, they would have content so I don’t touch them as I’m absorbed in my object.

    A feeling of Energy seems to underlie the thought and moving of my mind.
    These energy thoughts are pleasurable but a little distracting because I can feel them moving through my head, so I know my mind is not fully 100 percent settled. They feel like the very base form of a thought and they move.

    They don’t last too long and there not madly distracting and they go away pretty quickly. My own theory is that these are related to the long term pacification of my mind.

    I’m curious as to what they are and if you have any thoughts/ experiences with sensations like this?

    Also if any of this message is incoherent, I’m after having half a bottle of Jameason.

    • Illuminatus says:

      “As I get deeper, my mind feels quieter, more settled. I’m not having thoughts in the traditional sense. There more like mental movements, energy, like a thought moving in my head. I feel like their a thought but they have no content. I also know that if I examined them, they would have content so I don’t touch them as I’m absorbed in my object.”

      Sounds like the “Mind and Body” stage from the Theravada map:

      “As I get deeper, my mind feels quieter, more settled. I’m not having thoughts in the traditional sense. There more like mental movements, energy, like a thought moving in my head. I feel like their a thought but they have no content. I also know that if I examined them, they would have content so I don’t touch them as I’m absorbed in my object.”

      That’s right. A thought is like a piece of string. One end joins into the body where it is experienced as sensations; the other joins into the mind where it is experienced as “content”. You are seeing those strings now.

      My personal way to advance past this stage is strange and I have not heard it described like this before, but I will try to do so even though it’s hard to put into words: Knowing full well that the content end of the thought is just going to lead to distraction, I only focus upon the sensation end. Now, by adjusting things very subtly like my facial expression, some muscle tone etc., I can get those sensations to “hit” a “screen” in my mind — the same place where the object is, so they begin to “fuel” the object. Have you ever seen it on TV where they place a screen near a radioactive object and you see little green dots hitting all over the screen? That is what allowing the sensations to hit this “screen” in my mind looks/feels like. And when they hit it, they release piti (pleasure). This fuels and deepens the jhana state. So, I actually use the sensations to fuel jhana. But that is quite advanced, I think. I believe this ability comes from my kundalini experience — knowing that all these thoughts and sensations are just nerve current flows which can be redirected at the pleasure circuit.

      Another trick is that, as each “thought string” arises, locate the corresponding muscle tension (there is always some, somewhere, however subtle), and consciously let it go. This is training a relaxation response. This will increase absorption and pleasure also. I prefer the “spray the sensations on a screen” approach though as it is more rapturous.

      The traditional way to move past this phase, which insight meditators will be trying to do, is to again just focus on the sensations end of the string, and keep experiencing the sensations as finely as possible. This will tend to cause a rapid progress to the next stage of insight.

  14. Illuminatus says:

    I just wanted everyone to know that I just did this again: same game, same stake. Got 50 free spins awarding £850 then span it a few more times and ended up £1100 up. I’m basically running laps right now. 🙂

    • Edenist Whackjob says:

      Would you ever be able to do this on command in front of a skeptic?

      • Aldous says:

        He’s done it in front of me and I’m quite the skeptic. What can I tell you? It played out exactly as he described. He told me what he needed, concentrated on the screen and within a few spins there it was and he was £500 up.

        • Edenist whackjob says:

          James Randi, then? Or at least a live Youtube broadcast.

          I kinda believe Illumi can do this. Imagine if we could prove it though. History would be made.

          • Illuminatus says:

            I am not at the level where I can make the intention happen on the exact spin that is being observed. So, in the write-up in this blog post, I implied that I just got £1766.50 off one spin. Well, that is a dramatization for the purposes of storytelling. In reality, it was more like 10 spins (equals £20 total investment — still, a very good return!). On the latest endeavour with £1100, well that was made up of two sets of wins: A £200 initial investment just playing largely for fun. When I switched to Bier Haus I just re-established the same mental imagery (the screen filled with women) and the intention set — I didn’t need to invest serious time doing jhana. That then came true within maybe 50 spins (=£100, taken from what was left of the £200). That feature gave £850. However, THEN I got feature again (and the odds of doing this are REMARKABLY low) and won another couple of hundred. At this point, in terms of meditative territory, I was firmly into A&P and “felt” my intentions manifesting in real-time. So, I went onto a different game and just hit about three £100 wins in a row (meaning, literally *click click click* = £300, at just £2 a stake = £6). During those last three spins (which, again, is REMARKABLY low odds of hitting a x50 payout on each), I KNEW that each click would win. I KNEW it. Like, just as you know for sure you have 3 beers left in the fridge if you have bought 4 and have 1 in front of you, I KNEW that those spins would win like that. It was more like dreamtime, when an intention just manifests the outcome in front of you. If James Randi had come along in that moment, maybe I could have said, “Watch this!” But then he would have insisted I repeated it another 100 times in a row to “prove” I was doing it and it wasn’t just some massive coincidence.

            See, that’s the problem with sceptics. How much you have to “prove” each feat depends on the level of scepticism of the person you are demonstrating this to. With some people, you could do it ten times in a row, then fail the eleventh and they’d say, “Oh well, guess your LUCK ran out. This is not a repeatable experiment.” The more they have invested in their sceptical world view, the more you will have to do to challenge that. Imagine trying to do something like this with Richard Dawkins. How many times would he need to see it before he believed? How much would he need to play around with the situation till he got it to his “lab requirements”? (At which point it would probably be you, in a lab, pressing a computer with only one key, with a separate random generator that barks numbers at you that you have to manipulate that computer’s random generator to display. Double, triple, quadruple blind. And this would now be NOTHING like the situation you were originally trying to prove.)

            Then you can get into how the other person’s beliefs would affect reality on the level of intentions. That is a contentious issue and views vary wildly depending on each person’s belief set. But I might suggest that someone like Dawkins would believe so strongly against your ability that his intention would effectively veto yours and make you unable to perform the feat — UNLESS your concentration skill was so high that you had access to the deepest level of reality manipulation, like Hindu saints and yogis are reported able to do in tales from India reaching back thousands of years.

            • James says:

              “Be skeptical of your skepticism”

            • Illuminatus says:

              Forgot to say, the Bier Haus win pattern coming true again without much magickal prompting is very typical of the way the universe works: it is like a giant habit. If something has happened once, it is much more likely to happen again. So, some intention manifesting some result once makes it easier for that to happen the next time, and if it happens again then it just keeps becoming easier and easier each time until it’s almost taken for granted. I think “material reality” might just be a very persistent re-happening of intention, meaning “person X has created this tree so many times now that it just appears when he thinks of it (looks at it) — he now takes for granted that that tree is really ‘there’ when actually he just recreates it very easily each time he thinks about it”.

              All your habits and behaviour patterns and life situations which repeat over and over again can be seen as you just recreating them easier and easier each time due to this “universal habit” thing that’s going on (which itself is part of the Fractal Causality which governs the universe).

            • Edenist Whackjob says:

              Well, you make some good points.

              Still, for most people, if you can clearly beat the law of averages, that is proof enough. If you can get the rare win with a consistency that is orders of magnitude higher than what it should be, that satisfies me. If someone wants you to come up with the sequence EVERY time, I’d say they are a bit thick 🙂

              As for “skeptics cancel out my magick”, that might be the case, but it’s also a convenient way to say “my theory is unfalsifiable” (which again, is just in the nature of this area, so I’m not dissing).

              Not trying to be negative – I would really like to figure out how one could actually prove paranormal phenomena like this, thus sparking a new era in human history. But magick seems to want to be unfalsifiable (ie you can always come up with reasons why it works / doesn’t work, there is no clear path to prove/disprove it).

            • Edenist Whackjob says:

              There should be something like the Randi Foundation, but which is actually positive toward these types of phenomena being real. That would encourage a lot more “proofs of concept” (eg Illuminatus filming his gambling experiments).

              If the Universe works the way Illuminatus says, that should then lead to the “fractal” for “proof of paranormal” to get easier and easier to produce, leading to an upsurge in such proofs. Ie we would have an explosion of people demonstrating psi skills on Youtube.

              Now, Randi might keep escalating the burden of proof to cope with this, but eventually the tech gets so commonly known that it passes the early adaptor mark and becomes a practical tool for everyday use.


              • Illuminatus says:

                Well, I would invite you to ponder the question:

                If everyone can do something, is it still magick?

                “But magick seems to want to be unfalsifiable (ie you can always come up with reasons why it works / doesn’t work, there is no clear path to prove/disprove it).”

                You are on to something here.

                • Edenist Whackjob says:

                  Depends on definitions.

                  If the definition is “intention + awareness” then we are all doing magick, as you say.

                  We also need to be specific about what effects we are causing.

                  Odd “coincidences”, synchroniticies, signs, etc, would be one category of effects. This kind of thing would be very hard to prove, since you can never really prove (nor disprove) them. They can still be very useful to the individual, however.

                  Another category would be things that directly break the Standard Western Model of the Universe. This would be things like pulling apples out of thin air or affecting the probabilities of a game of hazard.

                  If the latter category is also magick, it would be the most amenable to testing. Although the universe would resist this, one could try to nudge the Universal Habit in this direction. This would then probably manifest in mainstream scientists becoming much more open to “psi” phenomena, moving the pale of skepticism. Maybe there would be some new “Psi Boson” or something like that discovered to account for the effects.

                  I am a scientist and rationalist at heart (as I bet you are, Illumi) – the woo is a much later development in my life. So I’m always trying to look at “how can we prove this?” Not out of some atheism-as-a-religion kind of thing, but just because it would be very, very cool.

                    • Illuminatus says:

                      This audio seems to be a Christian who has pigeonholed magick as demonic and has no experience with magick (and none of the insight that inevitably tends to arise from its use). Everything he says and thinks about magick is underwritten by a judging God who has a life purpose planned for everybody, and any magick is therefore an affront to God as it takes one away from that life purpose.

                      This is completely a Christian worldview. The problem is twofold: 1) Christianity is a VERY “cordoned off” religion in terms of the mental conditioning — it puts people into a very specific reality tunnel of service to the hereafter, and blocks off all the exits with signs that say “hell” and “demonic”. 2) The Eastern view of magick is nothing like this. In India over the last several thousand years, magick was a way of life. Magick permeated the entire culture. Magick was seen as something completely normal. It is only relatively recently, since the Muslim and then British invasion, that this more anti-magick worldview typical of the monotheistic religions has come to suppress magick in the Indian culture. In the East magick tends to be understood as part of the natural world, though different cultures have different levels of embracing or rejecting it.

                      My point is, this extreme anti-magick suspicion and hostility is not found everywhere in the world but is rather an artefact of monotheistic culture (whereby personal power, and any attempt to increase personal power, is seen as a slight against God). Christians are some of the most anti-magick people I’ve ever met. I remember bringing magick up with Koanic a couple of times via email and he would fly into this instantly hostile state; one time he sent me an American Christian propaganda video from the 1950s warning people how to spot warlocks.

                      Always try to be aware of the speaker’s culture and worldview before you listen to what they have to say about magick. Personally, I experience magick as a completely natural facet of reality and, like any aspect of reality, can be used for good, bad and neutral purposes.

                    • Edenist Whackjob says:

                      “In India over the last several thousand years, magick was a way of life. Magick permeated the entire culture. Magick was seen as something completely normal. ”

                      That’s interesting, and new to me. Where can I read more about this?

                    • Edenist Whackjob says:

                      Follow-on question, re: the demonic and hellish. Buddhists, Hindus, etc, also seem to think demons and Hell exist. What is the proper cosmological map to understand those sorts of things?

                      You say Christianity demarcates the demonic very strictly. What is the proper way to do it?

                    • Illuminatus says:

                      Christianity is so hostile towards and threatened by magick that reading about magick through a Christian lens is basically completely pointless.

                      “Aeoli Pera says:
                      While I’ll read out of general interest, I wouldn’t trust this shit for a moment, or these people, and practicing it is out of the question. God is very clear about this sort of thing.”

                      That says it all, right there. That is the default Christian stance on the matter. So why are you wasting your time reading Christians’ perspectives on magick? The worldview itself is designed to massively limit magickal exploration. There will be two camps: those highly opposed to any form of magick, and those who are clearly interested but try to practise magick “in line with Jesus’s teachings”. Would you try to learn javelin-throwing from someone who has had their arms tied behind their back?

                      Meanwhile there are thousands of Buddhist, Hindu, and Yogic sources out there where magick is fully explored. The Visuddhimagga is a massive Buddhist text with exact instructions on how to cultivate magickal powers (“Siddhis”). Patanjali’s ‘Yogasutras’ also give specific instructions.

                      “Follow-on question, re: the demonic and hellish. Buddhists, Hindus, etc, also seem to think demons and Hell exist. What is the proper cosmological map to understand those sorts of things?”

                      Eastern views on demons and hell realms are rather different to monotheistic culture, but views vary wildly. Some schools see the whole universe as just Mind, so demons are just a projection from some part of that Mind or other.

                      Daniel Ingram put across a nice way to look at demons and angels etc. in MCTB:

                      “Much more interesting than the question of what is real is the question of what is causal, i.e. what leads to what. For example, we might decide that our dreams are not “real”, but we must admit that there are real world consequences of having dreams.

                      For instance, you might have just come back from a retreat where you were playing around with visualization abilities, and a few days later see a troop of radiant angels floating through the walls and into your living room where you are entertaining guests. This was your actual experience.

                      Whether you choose to ignore them, give them lots of attention, mention them to your guests, get down on your knees and begin praying, or run screaming out the door will have different implications for your actual life. These implications should be carefully considered when conducting yourself in the face of such experiences. On a side note, if you have learned to see angels, you will probably run into devils soon enough.”

                      From here:
                      You should read that now.

                      “You say Christianity demarcates the demonic very strictly. What is the proper way to do it?”

                      Well you must understand firstly that Christianity is entirely underwritten by the concept of “eternities” experienced after death: Heaven for the good, and Hell for the bad. So all the hostility you see directed towards magick is an attempt to prevent one from going to Hell — for eternity.

                      In Buddhism, however, reality is all illusion. All experiences are essentially made of the same mind-stuff. Hell is not a literal place but rather a different type of experience. Also, all experiences are inherently impermanent. So “eternities” spent anywhere are completely out of the question.

                      Under this way of thinking, magick has causality meaning it creates effects in one’s experience of reality, so moral thought is applied to ensure positive effects for yourself and others. However, there is no “eternity” to suffer; just the negative effects, if any, you choose to create, for however long they last.

                      I have been to hell realms under jhana and there are the most terrifying scenes you can ever visit. One hell realm was so intensely terrifying that, after coming back to “normal reality”, there was nothing in our waking world that could ever live up to that terror so I experienced a couple of months of not fearing anything in this world. Then, eventually, I went back to more baseline experience of things. Nothing is permanent. Experiences fade. Even while in the hell realm I just applied the insight investigation I have trained in: seeing the Three Characteristics (no self, impermanence, unsatisfactoriness) in all phenomena. This is a great way to deal with terrifying phenomena. If the practice can work in a hell realm, it can work anywhere. This is why the Buddha made it his core credo.

                    • Arpan says:

                      1 . Indians who know anything about Indian systems of thought And have not studied them purely for intellectual criticism(We have grown a sickening share of r-selected people since independence, which is changing now) are not actually closed minded about magick. The main consideration why most people in India look down upon magick/tantra is because of it’s tempting nature, not because it’s considered a “sin”. Our generation has also grown upon the diet of “Tantric Sex” which informs the Western view of Tantra, thus further alienating many.

                      2. Concept of Eternal Damnation in Abrahamic religions: Actually this was originally not a big issue in ANY major religion. In India, scriptures define timelines in terms of Billions abd Trillions of years. And one can stay in Hindu/Buddhist heaven/hell for billions of years easily. Eg One day in Brahmalok = Entire cycle if creation amd dissolution of material Universe, and so is one night. And Brahmlok last for 100 such years. West of India, in muslim lands and in further West Christian lands, such gigantic timescales were non existent in popular psyche, so prophets and saints in these areas described such Huge time periods as “eternity”. They were not into philosophical discussions and meditative explorations of Reality as survival in social turmoil was the need. This bereft them from the concept of Cyclical Timelines followed in India. Over the years, as innate spiritual element was lost, Abrahamic thought of Eternal Damnation stratified into a war mongering dogma, and Indian concept of innumerable cycles descended into lethargy.

                      @ Illuminatus:
                      I watched 3 episodes of season 1: Twin Peaks(original 1990’s). Do you remrmber the scene where Dale Cooper flings stones at a bottle to intuitively know the Killer ? What do you think about that ? I have a feeling that this thing can be tapped into in real life and I think it has happened to me.

                    • Illuminatus says:


                      I remember that scene well as I have watched the original series many, many times.

                      As a method of inquiry, throwing stones I suppose could be used the same way as any magickal system of divination. Western occult books like “Liber Null & Psychonaut” describe such practices well.

                      On a semi-related note (though not really) I went ten pin bowling the other day. After trying and failing to use technical advice, eventually I let go and asked God to show me the way. I picked the ball up pointing my index finger where I wanted it to go and some lines overlaid themselves on my visual field. Then, I just followed the lines. Didn’t worry about the pins, just followed the lines. Hammered everyone on that game. I’ll never forget that. Used to happen on good days in golf, too. Some good brain hemisphere cross-chatter going on there.

                    • Arpan says:

                      @ Illuminatus:
                      I have tried using this sort of intuition while attempting mock objective question papers related to a subject I am familiar with but did not study deeply enough to perform well on a rigorous test. I would sit in inner silence and just let my pen fall on the correct option in accordance to a “slight inner urge”. Do you think this is effective in the test situation I described ?

                      Without a theistic paradigm my mind would garble up any emerging intuition with its own logic: Both regarding which answer to mark And in analysing whether I was deluding myself about this “intuition”.
                      However, it increased my score regardless.

                      With theistic paradigm I find that overanalysis being negated. Overall, I don’t find analysis about how stuff is working very healthy while using the theistic reality tunnel. Infact viewing it as a Reality Tunnel is itself detrimental to the delicate feeling. One needs to just throw oneself in without reservation.

                      Can you suggest me some good books on Western occult. I am thoroughly ignorant of Western occult sciences, and any book which assumes too much knowledge of ancient western iconography regarding this stuff would go over my head. I have a soft copy of Liber Null and Psychonaut, but a cursory view intimidated me with symbols and rituals. Correct me if I am wrong and I can actually read it.

                    • Illuminatus says:

                      Regarding multiple choice test answers, indulging in intuition will produce a better result than random guessing. I win money every time I play quiz machines in pubs here in the UK, which are all multiple choice, usually four possible answers given. If I don’t know an answer factually, rather than prod at the screen randomly I will instead “read the answer in the mind of the quizmaster”. I don’t literally read his mind (or maybe I do?); rather, I ask myself what answer this human would have found to his question and which answers he would see fit to insert to confuse me. That tends to make it very obvious (via an internal hunch) which is the correct answer. There will usually be a combined visual and kinaesthetic (feeling) “highlighting” the correct answer on the screen. I recommend the same process for exams.

                      Re “Liber Null & Psychonaut”, I just flicked through my copy. The symbols are: 1) Largely illustrative (Western occult books LOVE their symbols) and 2) For the pre-Adept phase. The goal is to become an “Adept” (his terminology) which is a magician capable of magick without symbols, sigils and the like. I was already Adept before I got the book.

                      The only Western occult books I have read are Liber Null & Psychonaut, and Initiation Into Hermetics (which I couldn’t finish as it was too primitive for me). Angel Tech also had magick in but this was mainly done via tarot, which again is too primitive for me.

                      Liber Null & Psychonaut is a great book, well worth reading all the way through. It is what the occult section of PPM would look like if I wrote it now from scratch. To become an Adept, you just need samadhi plus some intuition about the magickal nature of reality and how to manipulate it.

                      As a sidenote, I haven’t practised magick at all for a very long time as there are too many unforeseen repercussions of every act, even small ones. After the above post for example I had some credit card fraud done on the card I had used. Just a small amount was stolen, but it was enough for me to have to phone around, report it to the authorities etc. and basically waste a load of my time. Typically there is always some “rub” to using magick for personal gain.

                      Synchronicities have not stopped, however. I still have several every single day. That is a product of regular meditation, in my opinion.

                    • Arpan says:

                      I have read about a fourth of Liber Null book and I agree it is a masterpiece.
                      2 questions:
                      1. The approaches mentioned in this book are all ‘strenous’ in order to covulse the mind into altered state. While I understand the need for this, but I personally have been using “workarounds” to slip past my limiting thoughts. Eg. I just ask God for something and then assume that it’s gonna be taken care of no matter what my logical mind thinks or does which is its very nature. Like this, I include my limitations in the “asking/manifesting” process. I feel that a constant separate observer of doubts and believer in God takes shape behind everyday doubts. I never demand anything with which I am morally not in sync with so no conflicts arise on that account . It usually involves asking for some ability or position with a clear cut desire to help a few family members or others. I include that desire in my asking. Though I have done it in amoral framework for trivial things like making some random stranger look at me just to test magick by using strong intention or developing a whole body feel of being successful via yoga nidra for more general and serious long term goal. My main thing is: I am never obsessed about my intention being successful, letting go comes easy to me.
                      There is always a doubt if all this is a lucky coincidence. Particularly because since childhood I have almost always got anything I have been serious about. With magick I am always more successful with goals having many ways of manifesting than ultra specificity, thus its difficult to introduce tracers like Pavlina. Also, I find intending tracers to be very distracting.
                      So do you think that my method with “asking” is possibly genuine ? (Especially in light of not atall straining myself)

                      2. Re Rub of Magick: Let me narrate my worldview so as to better contextualize my question on magick. My worldview is heavily influenced by non dualistic vedanta. It has become natural to me since I have been delving into it since childhood. So as Brahm(Sanskrit equivalent of Tao) is the sole reality and it contains the entire universe, is in us all completely not in parts, and exceeds all known Universe( Universal, Immanent and Transcendent aspects) when we hurt/rob anybody we quite literally hurt/rob ourselves as we are One on the spiritual plane. That hurt just takes time to manifest into the physical plane as this plane is less “plastic”. Similarly when we benefit anybody, we benefit ourselves. Like we would ampute a hopelessly damaged arm, Our Higher self finishes of the lower physical manifestation that is creating trouble for the Body Composite. Our notions of separateness is like that of 2 toes thinking they are separate beings. No “form” can become too great for the Whole as the form is defined by limitatioms, so the Whole can always hurl a better form against the troublesome one. I dont believe in Karma to be a necessarily Eye for an Eye process. It’s more like: Those who walk further on the path of unconscious separative egoism, become more and more titanic/asuric and eg may earn all wealth and power and lose all inner felicity cz it was the former things they poured their soul energy into. While a person just concerned with ethics may gain great inner felicity but outer poverty. Universe is “fair”.
                      So in my attempts at magick I usually aim for things that would : make me capable of serving an increasing number of beings in increasingly profound ways. I dont use it as a “trick” to gain personal power. Infact much of my magick is focussed on gaining power in circumstances where it would be optimally used. I am too comfortable and equanimous with my life to be driven to action for a selfish purpose in general. Do you think this would have any negative rub ?
                      Harming others in conventional ways has usually not gone well for me in a larger perspective.

                    • James says:

                      “As a sidenote, I haven’t practised magick at all for a very long time as there are too many unforeseen repercussions of every act, even small ones. After the above post for example I had some credit card fraud done on the card I had used. Just a small amount was stolen, but it was enough for me to have to phone around, report it to the authorities etc. and basically waste a load of my time. Typically there is always some “rub” to using magick for personal gain.”

                      I was talking to my older brother about that kind of thing in relation to “magick” or “law of attraction” etc… his reply was…

                      “So basically, the Universe is like a cunt genie”.

                    • Illuminatus says:


                      1) I’m reading this trash Law of Attraction guide called “E-Squared: Nine Do-It-Yourself Energy Experiments” (donated to me by Aldous who was throwing out a load of books).

                      The author has no “technique” but just tells the Universe what she wants and sets a time limit. So, “By the end of this week, I want X to manifest.” I tried this the other day and just said, “I want something lucky to have happened to me by the end of the day.” Then I was sold some meal at a café for ridiculously cheap because breakfast was ending at they were just going to throw stuff away, and that happened within an hour of my asking. However, my wish was so vague that many things could have fulfilled that.

                      However, that event also had the “wish fulfilled” feeling I ALWAYS get when I do magick and manifest the result. That feeling is its own sensation much like “I am”, “being” etc. all have their own sensations people don’t usually think about. Anyway, when I get that sensation, it usually “knocks the wind out of me” for a while during which I can’t easily do more magick. This “spent” feeling is another reason I don’t do magick any more. It actually leads to a kind of nihilistic depression in me for a while like, “Oh, it’s really that easy, huh.” Okay, getting a bacon roll is not much reason to be disappointed, but manifesting £2,000 in one spin after jhana is enough to really blow up one’s idea of reality. It’s all a headfuck.

                      Anyway, I’m getting off track. Sure, you could just ask for what you think you needed.

                      2) I don’t know what kind of “rub” there would be, if any. Your worldview seems more compatible with such things so it might be fine for you. Are you Indian or what? I’m a Westerner and many aspects of nonduality tend to throw me when they show themselves, even now. The Western worldview just doesn’t allow this sort of thing to slot in easily.

                      Last time I did magick it was to save a friend of a friend who had gone missing and had gone off to commit suicide somewhere. I had never met him. But I contacted him astrally and saved him, but a load of his pain transferred to me and I felt like hell for a week afterwards. So, even helping others has brought me pain.

                      But really I think all these things are just revealing aspects of my own worldview I didn’t know well before, and that’s really where the pain is coming from.

                    • Arpan says:

                      @ Ed: Thanks. I too experienced a similar headfuck a few times, but I just let that go too. Letting Go is the my root skill in meditation, which helped me acquire all others. That is why I talk about Do Nothing so much. It gave me nothing except this ability to Deeply let go at a moment’s notice.

                      2. Yes, I am an Indian living in India. I would like to address some points here so as to put my magick in perspective, so bear with me. I am well aware of our cultural differences, that’s why I took pain to narrate my worldview. It makes for many innate differences eg. I stated in an earlier exchange that I don’t care about socializing. From what I read here, watch in hollywood movies, including references to PUA websites, not socializing beyond what’s necessary with strangers at a bar etc seems to be considered odd in the West and they seem to be categorized as “losers” etc. In India, though a level of socializing is mandatory, but not beyond that. Infact a person who does not go beyond it is assumed to be sincere and focussed unless otherwise proved. My attitude also takes away my social anxiety, as I really don’t care whether someone likes me or not but at the same time generates apathy to socializing. Yes, totally individualistic pursuits are looked down upon in the entire East and it’s very natural to develop communitarian feelings. This ofcourse has its pros and cons.I am k-selected like you in political inclinations, anti feminist and right leaning thinking otherwise, but I do have a Strong nationalist sentiment(not in sense of feeling hatred towards other nations, but to relieve masses out of poverty and ignorance). I am have comfortable level of assets as of now and the job I am competing for is a high profile govt job, for similar charitable reasons. My understanding of Charity has evolved a lot overtime from mere food distribution and educating people to actually awakening a Higher understanding of life in them. I concur with you that ppl need yoga and once consciousness rises, these sterile ideological debates would vapourise. Infact manyyy yogis in India were and are making efforts on similar lines.
                      I usually find highly desperate and self absorbed ppl in magick community, who would straight out refuse to believe that I have such reasons for magick, thus the question.
                      So yes, I can understand how terribly the western values and “sense of achievement” conflict with Non Dualism. What do you think about Co Created reality then ? I somehow never emotionally warmed up to the idea because it seems to be a crude philosophical compromise between Subjective Reality and Solipsism. But I did find you support it at one point positing how number of Ayes must exceed number of Nays. Daniel Ingram seems to posit this idea too. What’s your take Now ?

                      I am asking all this less out of philosophical interest and more out of refining my model of reality better so as to be more effective at magick.

                    • Arpan says:

                      @ Ed: Also, Regarding:
                      “But I contacted him astrally and saved him, but a load of his pain transferred to me and I felt like hell for a week afterwards. So, even helping others has brought me pain.”

                      That perfectly fits my worldview:
                      To help others helps in the Wider scheme, not in “little me” scheme. If you donate money, ofcourse your bank balance decreases. If you rescue someone from a burning house, ofcourse you get singed. If you contact a grieving friend astrally, ofcourse his grief impacts you.
                      Since you(a point) have “given” something(your own mental comfort in this case) to help another point in the Cosmic Consciousness, in the larger scheme of things your Higher/Cosmic self would strengthen you further for its purposes.
                      And as I stated in my comment, it’s not an Eye for an Eye thing. You poured out your energy for a goal exceeding your self interest, you grow towards the Olympian nature and power and inner felicity. That’s the general reward.
                      A rigid reward and punishment paradigm is rather unimaginitive. If people are good out of greed for reward or punishment for hell, they are not actually evolving.
                      For more:


                    • Illuminatus says:

                      Thanks for your bio, helps to have a story.

                      I am thinking we need to get threads like these onto the forum as soon as they start, going forward. The blog software is not designed for this and as you can see it only allows 10 levels of nested comments.

                      Anyway, re “co-created reality”, it’s a worldview I’ve been thinking about for a long time (assuming you mean the same thing I do by it). The reality tunnel I arrived at immediately prior to the “God’s divine plan” one (which I only really turned to as a result of watching Maitreya Ishwara: was as follows:

                      The universe exists to experience relationships so splits itself into many vantage points which interact. “Will” is perhaps the primary substrate. So we exist through will and we have will. If we all want the same thing, we get it. There is a “God’s will” which is just the will of the amalgamated vantage point. But as smaller vantage points we also have a share of that will. So, we are God’s will, having a separateness from it in terms of individual experience but also take a share in its power to will our own experiences (and we can identify with “higher”/ more amalgamated vantage points using absorption/identification with that vantage point; this is where e.g. praying to the Sun or any deva comes from.

                    • Arpan says:

                      @ Ed:
                      Well yes, I have been deferring creating an account on the forum out of laziness, since meditation and magick get discussed here anyway. Will do that.

                      Thank you for the clarification. I mean the same thing as you do by Co Creation. The Adwaitin(Hindu Non Dualistic) view is actually a mix of both what you stated under Co Creation and God’s Plan paradigms. There are buddhist kind nihilistic interpretations of Adwait too, which are nkw considered adulterations of a later age. We are all “instruments” but “conscious” instruments, not mechanical. As I once stated while explaining Hindu vs Buddhist rebirth to you, God himself assumes innumerable forms according to All Hindu systems(they only defer in as to their conceptions of to what degree one merges with God, which I think is mere a debate of merely symantics, arising from rigid views on “personality”).
                      So God says: Eko Aham Bahusyam: I who is One shall become Many. Hence we are not merely figments of Cosmic imagination but each of us is God himself who has accepted the tremendous challenge of evolving out of dead matter for the purpose of Cosmic Play.
                      Sometimes the God Consciousness descends in forms of Avataras to show humankind the way out of limitations by negotiating it like a human. 10 main hindu avataras follow an Evolutionary scheme from a Fish to a Mystical Man(the one remaining for future). They also open they way for next step of growth in Consciousness.
                      Then there are smaller emanations called Vibhutis who are born with some extra ordinary power for one kind of purpose for smaller step ups in evolution. Amongst Westerners, Napoleon is considered a Vibhuti(though of a Titanic/Asuric/Rajasik nature) , so are: George Washington, Shakespeare(Satwik) , Julius Caesar(Rajasik) by some yogis. There are 16 qualities of Consciousness out of which one having 6 or 7 is a Vibhuti, while 8 and above is an Avatar. Plants gave 2, microbes have 1.
                      Thus we are all avatars in the Absolute sense, differing in intensity and quality of our expression of divinity.
                      On Enlightenment we become God and know what role we ourselves had willed to play in the grand scheme from our particular point in the Divine Matrix. Thus, no chance of “clash of wills” amongst Enlightened beings. Then one enlightened being would be a poet because knows that’s what his Original Will was(and might right poems that might inspire revolutions for a millenia) and another would be a King for similar reasons. Both are equally powerful, not greater or lesser than other.

                      Lastly, God’s Will is a totality of wills but not limited to just that. God is manifested as each of the innumerable creatures And yet has a free Cosmic and Transcendent aspect. So Divine Will is our True Will which percolates in a distorted form of our individual desires. Eg Greed is Divime Will to Embrace and contain All.
                      Sexual pleasure and glutton’s pleasure is a physical manifestation if Divine Will for unasulterated Bliss etc.

                      You may like this para from Yogic Sadhan by Sri Aurobindo. This book matches your approach of dping yoga by Will:

                      “What the Will is you have heard. It is Shakti, it is not Vasana, it is not Cheshta. Vasana and Cheshta are the negation of will. If you have desire, that means you doubt the power of your Will. Brahman has no desire. He wills and all things happen according to his Will. If you have Cheshta, that means you doubt your Will. Only those who feel or think they are not strong, struggle and labour to produce an effect. Brahman has no cheshta. He wills and His Will spontaneously produces its effect. But it produces it in time, space and causality. To demand a result now here and under given conditions is Ajnanam. The time, space and causality of every event and its development have been fixed ages ago by yourself and Parameswara, when the Kalpa(aeon) began. It is ignorance to struggle and try to alter what you have yourself decreed. Care not about time, space or conditions, but will, and leave the result to God who is your omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient self. You are the individual God and He is the universal God. Nothing but God exists. Ekam evadwitiyam. Therefore Will implies Samata(equanimity), absence of Vasana(desire) and Cheshta(longing). Absence of Vasana and Cheshta implies knowledge. Until you have knowledge, you can never be safe against the return of Vasana and Cheshta.

                      The question is how to start. The Shakti is in you. Let her work and assist her by taking the right attitude. You are the Sakshi, Anumanta, Bhokta, and Bharta. As Anumanta, give the command, as Sakshi watch her work out the result, as Bhokta enjoy the result and as Bharta help her by maintaining the Adhar. Do not ruin it by tamasic udasinata or rajasic revolt. Be sure your Will can never fail to act. You are the Jnata: receive all knowledge that presents itself to you. Adopt the attitude I have described here and apply it to every individual act of the sadhana or of life. You have nothing else to do. Kali will do the rest. Be not troubled, be not anxious, be not in haste, you have all eternity before you, why be in haste? Only do not be tamasic or idly waste your time.”

                    • James says:

                      I started a thread on the forum if you guys would like to continue this conversation over there:


    • dreammike says:

      Are you basically using the law of attraction but with the added ability of having an intense focus/concentration due to meditation whereas a normal persons intent would normally be very weak and almost non perceptible?

      • Illuminatus says:

        “Are you basically using the law of attraction but with the added ability of having an intense focus/concentration due to meditation whereas a normal persons intent would normally be very weak and almost non perceptible?”


        Awareness + Intention = Magick

        Normal people are casting spells all the time (making lots of intentions in their mind) — they just have a million other thoughts cancelling them out.

        The method in this post is one way out of many to get a clear signal of intent through.

        • Edenist whackjob says:

          Maybe you should write more on this. Fascinating topic.

        • Kautilya says:

          Here you says it’s pretty much Awareness + Intention

          In the above post you said, to be an adept it’s basically:

          Samadhi + intuition of the Magickal realm + Knowledge of how to use it

          So I assume overall is –

          Heightened Awareness + Intuitive-Intention -> Put into Action

          I can understand Magick having repercussions, but why would taking focused action on an intention stemming from ones intuition – ‘fueled by the light of Samadhi’ – contain any repercussions!??

          Sounds like the underlying base of all personal development and the ideal way to live a full life.

          • Illuminatus says:

            “Adept” with a capital A — it is a skill level defined in Liber Null & Psychonaut.

            “I can understand Magick having repercussions, but why would taking focused action on an intention stemming from ones intuition – ‘fueled by the light of Samadhi’ – contain any repercussions!??”

            I was not talking about intuition; I was talking about formal magick. Stop putting words in my mouth.

            • Kautilya says:

              Alrite lol!

              Didn’t mean any offense ……plus it’s a new topic, I’m familiar with Siddhis but about this all I know is the name Aleister Crowley. Ok Magick has…. repercussions.

              What ‘good’ way would you suggest to a dedicated mediator, with an open mind to start Manifesting?

              Once again, if there were best practices for this even if they entailed work, it would do wonders for raising consciousness. Once these things are experienced people could truly devote themselves to deeper aspects of practice.

              Difficult if your hungry, frustrated, impoverished, tired with life…..but knowing you can gain a slight ended can do wonders for motivation.

              • Illuminatus says:

                “What ‘good’ way would you suggest to a dedicated mediator, with an open mind to start Manifesting?”

                Manifesting is paradoxically easiest at the beginning. An open mind and “beginner’s luck” work wonders. WONDERS.

                Finding money is a standard Steve Pavlina intro to magick. Just visualize finding money for a few minutes and get giggly and playful while doing so. When you’re out (e.g. walking) you’ll now start scanning the ground more as a result of that autosuggestion. This is where materialists get a “Get out of jail free” card — they know they’re just looking on the ground more than usual and when they find money it’s just a result of “selective attention”. Except when I did it, it wasn’t just pennies — I found a whole jackpot left in the tray of a slot machine in a local pub. I found a ten pound note in the back of a cab that same night. By the end of the week I was up something like £80 just from looking around.

                The more carefree you are the easier it is. The best manifesting emotion however is HUMOUR. Joke about something then it’ll end up happening.

                It is only when you want to manifest life-changing things (such as meeting someone new) that some ritual or samadhi is required to slip the request through the cracks of your belief system. Even then, some people are just really lucky, or really good at manifesting for some reason or other.

  15. Aldous says:

    I must add, though that is indeed what I saw I don’t want to recommend anyone else try this. All these things are highly subjective. I don’t want to be the reason you lose your shirt. I myself haven’t tried it and I won’t – I’m not an online gambler and I have no reason to believe it will work for me. If you try this sort of thing, it’s on you.
    All I can report is what I saw and what I saw is exactly what Illuminates described. I saw him do it.

    • Illuminatus says:

      I would like to echo what Aldous has said here. It is unlikely a beginner could use this method to make money. The kasina meditation itself is quite advanced and requires good concentration skill.

      But if you are reading this thinking all your problems would be solved if you could win money gambling, then you probably have other issues to deal with first.

      • dreammike says:

        Couple questions pop out. How advanced do you think you are in meditation compared to whats possible. I mean do you believe with enough experience and practice you could basically control the real world like the most advanced lucid dreamers control their dreams? Is this just a dream one level higher up where intentions manifest more slowly in both a negative and positive direction.

        I.E you think a negative thought in a dream and pop a zombie appears in your dream. In waking life if you are constantly negative and worry about bad things happening after a year you might get fired from your job.

        If waking life just a non-lucid dream for most people and advanced meditators are what you could say more lucid how far can you go?

        Is this life a shared dream? Have you ever given an real consideration to solipsism?

        I’ve read my fair share of debates on dreamviews about where dreams can be shared.

        One person said he didn’t believe in shared dreaming but kept running into dream characters in his lucid dreams that he couldn’t control and ‘felt’ different. He set up a simple email address with a simple one word password like

        Password: Banana

        And any time he ran into someone in a dream he thought might exist in real life gave them the information and told them to email him.

        He said over the years he got 16 emails (he changed the password every time to so no false negatives)

        If he isn’t crazy or lying, again maybe dreams are a more unstable version of reality and a fractal of real life.

        And I know you said your not interested in lucid dreaming in the ‘entertainment sense’ but your article covering charley morley, isn’t his perspective one of the dream yogis of using lucid dreaming for enlightenment.

        Do you think using it for such a practice is a dead end?

        I’ve heard of people meditating in lucid dreams (I believe even Charley mentions doing it).

        Couldn’t mastering lucid dreaming – dream control – help you master intent in real life?

        • Edenist whackjob says:

          Interesting. Did he end up meeting those people in the end?

        • Illuminatus says:

          I used to meditate in lucid dreams all the time and it gives amazing samadhi — deep bliss and peace. The reason I would do this is that, if I was meditating in bed, sometimes I would fall asleep while doing that (bed is not really the right place for meditation). I would pass through the “sleep barrier” still conscious, however, and arrive in a dream scene, but then just sit in the dream and resume the meditation.

          Another thing I used to do before I learned meditation (remember I was adept at lucid dreaming LONG before meditation) was to go to bed IN THE DREAM and get double sleep. That might sound like nonsense to someone who has not experienced these altered states, but let me tell you, dream sleep is the deepest and most restorative.

          The rest of your questions probe the fundamental nature of reality: is there truly defined separate consciousnesses or are we all part of the same dream? And if it’s a dream, am I the only one who is really the dreamer? In all my years studying various Eastern philosophies I have not had that question answered satisfactorily. However, as Richard Bandler used to say, personal experience is the final arbiter of your reality. Your beliefs are strongly shaped by your personal experience. My experiences, especially those with the magick side of things (including precognitive dreams and other phenomena) lean me quite strongly towards solipsism. I do not invest highly in that world view though (Robert Anton Wilson left a striking impression on me with his model agnosticism framework, and I have carried that into most things I do). But, to answer your question, my inclination tends to be that I am the only “true” dreamer and you are all dream characters or projections of my subconscious and past karma. I do not go around thinking that about anyone in particular, though — so I do not treat people in my day to day life as “dream characters”. The inclination towards reflecting upon them as potential projections of my subconsciousness does not carry over into my interactions (though maybe that would be an experiment worth undertaking).

          Ultimately I don’t stick strongly to any one possible interpretations of reality, since they are all “modelled” at some level.

          • Edenist Whackjob says:

            “double sleep”

            I keep hearing about little life-hacks like this. You seem to have an almost endless supply of them. Maybe you should catalogue them, make a full list? I’d buy that book!

  16. Rigz says:

    “One hell realm was so intensely terrifying that, after coming back to “normal reality”, there was nothing in our waking world that could ever live up to that terror so I experienced a couple of months of not fearing anything in this world”

    What did you see? Demons and hell-fire etc? Recently I watched some documentaries on serial killers and had some horrible lucid dreams of being in those scenes and seeing it first hand. Fortunately I woke up when things got too scary but I can’t imagine how terrifying it would be to be stuck in scenes like that

  17. Illuminatus says:

    Guys who looked like this:

    Quan Chi

    And rivers of green ooze.

  18. Yuki says:

    Ajahn Brahm sure knows what he is talking about, but it bothers me that his method of breathing never ever works for me, in fact, I do not have any distractions the entire session while on the breath with his method, but it just won’t take me to jhana OR even close to it, nor have I read any experiences out there with people getting to jhana or close to it with his method… it’s funny because when I am on the breath at the nostrils I have much more distractions than with his method, yet with the nostrils within couple of minutes I can get already into access concentration and close enough to jhana…

    It’s a shame because ajahn brahm method feels more light and fun when I practice it, “easier on the system”

    I wish I could make it work but it won’t, maybe his so called “attention mode” is set differently than the way he explains it in his book…

    It’s a shame but oh well…

    • Illuminatus says:

      That’s my experience too, except I have got jhana with his method a couple of times. Here is what I seem to need in order to make it work:

      – Good energy, e.g. morning after a good sleep.
      – Good health and lifestyle that week (so no toxins or bad eating).
      – Dedication to his method, and not trying to “skip” to jhana.
      – During the meditation, you need total mindfulness of whole body and breath. This is why you need the energy and good health — you cannot be of the mindset of skipping ahead, you have to monitor the whole awareness field constantly.
      – Rather than suppressing thoughts (which is basically what me and you do with our more rapid yogic style of concentration) instead you allow them to arise while simultaneously letting them go. The pleasure should wash over you as you let them go. Each thought that is let go should relax you.

      It is this build-up of pleasure-through-process over time that eventually allows jhana, and the slip into jhana is far more gradual and almost unnoticeable (you are just kind of “there” at some point, though there is still a noticeable threshold point).

      The way you do the method needs to mirror Ajahn Brahm himself — gentle, allowing, non-controlling, extremely mindful.

      It is a far more healthy-feeling method, and sets one up well for the Buddhist path. I am more a state-control power junkie who’s into sorcery and all the other banned things, though, so my style is far more intense yoga and kundalini type stuff.

      • Illuminatus says:

        P.S. The nimittas under his method are ultra-bright, luminous — almost an experience in their own right. There is a lot of stuff in the buildup to jhana that I basically skip over in my method. I believe that stuff is all worth experiencing, though, and I practise Ajahn Brahm’s method at least once a month as a kind of detox, even if I don’t get jhana very often in those sessions.

      • Yuki says:


        It’s working!I got very fast to access concentration (it’s very apperent with this kind of awareness, it’s like you are suddenly sucked inside a bubble.

        No jhana but some jhanic factors were manifesting , gonna stick with it as the effects are very calming for me and easier on my system

  19. Kautilya says:

    Do you guys know anything about Coca Leaves Divination? Does it have any link with Magick?

    Apparently this is ‘as good’ as the I-Ching.

  20. Rigz says:

    @ Illuminatus

    What is so consistently emotionally jarring about the subjective worldview? I know that we have been brought up under Western materialism, and that things like magick or premonitions could at first cause fear, as they suggest that what we have been told is false.

    But ultimately if there is repeated evidence, why should it be so hard to shed that baggage and just accept subjectivity? I mean, Western materialism is no less bizarre when you really think about it. Even the existence of an “objective reality” is INSANE even if that is what is ultimately true, the fact that atoms, time, “the universe” or existence exists is ridiculous, and can only be appealed to by its own standards of normalcy. That there should be an immense and expanding “space time continuum” in which actual stars exist, planets, let alone the existence of lifeforms, made of “atoms” which are both “wave and particle” is a complete absurdity. Yet not even Western materialists deny this.

    So considering how bizarre that is, the idea of a completely subjective experience in which we have the power of absolute creation, dimensional travel, astral projection, intention manifestation, isn’t really any different. Perhaps this is easier said than done. I can’t speak from experience as I’ve not had any magickal experiences that didn’t allow a materialist get out clause explanation. Maybe if I did I’d think differently. But still, I don’t see what should be so hard to accept about it, at least after repeated evidence that couldn’t be explained by any other explanation. Maybe subjectivity is just ultimately how the universe works, objectivity is false, and that’s it.

    • Illuminatus says:

      The problem is, humans don’t really change their beliefs even in the face of repeated evidence. 🙂

      The reality tunnel you’re handed as a child is remarkably resilient (as you’re finding with your “I want to be as cool as I am on MDMA all the time” experiments).

      I think social reinforcement is a major player. Let’s say I lived in some hippie commune where we were always “manifesting” — the new beliefs would probably stick (and that’s essentially what Steve Pavlina did). Instead I walk out into a world where talking about this stuff makes me either crazy, a liar, or evil. Not good for a social pack animal! 🙂

      • Arpan says:

        I guess another major problem with adopting subjective/nob dualistic paradigm in modern(not necessarily Western nowadays) societies is:
        It strongly discourages the individualism as practiced today. Any behaviour that’s being imdulged in for the gain of “little me” AT THE EXPENSE of the “other” would have little justification under such a paradigm.

        This calls for an overhaul of an entire way of life, which is nearly impossible for most human beings, especially when the predominant societal values around them are in huge conflict with such a change.

        Also, at this stage of our collective knowledge, it matters little as to which Reality Tunnel is “true”. Infact the very idea of an absolute truth is itself a Reality Tunnel: Objective Reality. What really matters is adopting a tunnel that maximises our life experience in the most holistic way. Almost any phenomenon can be explained via both objective and subjective Reality Tunnels.
        It’s much like the Free Will vs Fate debate:
        One way to look at it is: We dunno for sure which paradigm is True. So it’s better to believe in Free Will, because if Free Will exist, then I am on the right track, and if only Fate exists then I was fated to believe in Free Will. On the other hand, if I believe in Fate, then if Free Will exists, I might just be wasting my life with little/no action.

        • Illuminatus says:

          Just wanted to say thanks, Arpan, for all your hard work expounding ideas and replying to posts. You are an asset!

          For a long time I have viewed free will and fate/determinism as “emergent properties” of the paradigm you adopt at any given time. If you behave as though you have free will, you will appear to be acting upon the world in the actions you do. If you behave as though you have no free will and all is determined, the world will appear to “do” unto you (fate).

          “Total free will” involves taking a lot of responsibility the average human is not willing to take.
          “Total fate” involves powerlessness to forces effected long before you were born. A kind of involuntary surrender, for most people with this worldview. A resignation.

          Humans prefer to have a bit of both. They like to think the good things are their own doing, while the bad is fate and beyond their control.
          That is, until ego is transcended. Then you get paradigms like “God’s divine plan” (Maitreya Ishwara), a voluntary surrender to fate.
          Or Aleister Crowley, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law”, a grab at total wilfulness (though I’m not sure the “ego transcended” part applies to him…)

          • Arpan says:

            @ Ed: You are welcome 🙂 Internet is the most powerful tool I have for my purposes right now and your website offers the best mix of genuine practice, open mindedness and intelligent innovation, so I choose to enrich it like wikipedia.

            Re Free will vs Fate:
            All non liberated beings are bound in every direction. Be it their capacity for stillness or for activity, capacity for joy or for grief, and so on. Thus if you take up any one concept and follow it to its most extreme end, you break out of the shell of your ego and taste liberation. Buddha’s genius is in focussing on the problem of suffering as most others in his time( like the contemporary enlightened master Mahavir, who is revered in Jainism) chose to undergo immense suffering in breaking the ego shell.
            So if you follow either of these approaches to their logical consclusion: Absolute Fate or Absolute Free Will, you will attain liberation.

            In yoga there is a saying: Either become so small(humility/surrender/dualistic devotion) that you escape out of the holes in the net of Maya(cosmic illusion) or become so great(will power/subjective non dualistic reality) that no matter how much the Maya expands herself, you remain beyond its reach.

            “For a long time I have viewed free will and fate/determinism as “emergent properties” of the paradigm you adopt at any given time. If you behave as though you have free will, you will appear to be acting upon the world in the actions you do. If you behave as though you have no free will and all is determined, the world will appear to “do” unto you (fate).”

            This is obviously rooted in the all embracing subjective reality tunnel. Yeah, from practice point of view it’s an excellent model.
            As an aside: Napoleon was a believer in Absolute Faith. He even used to state something on these lines: “A great person has no will”. When questioned as to why he plans so much then ? He stated: Because I am fated to plan. A tremendous Energy drives me, does not let me rest.

            There is a philosophical concept called: Materialistic Determination(seriously under question since the discovery of Quantum mechanics), which is on these lines: If you believe in a thoroughly materialistic existence, you must accept Causality as an absolute principle. You chose to type a text here as a result of a few chemical reactions in the braim. Since everything has a cause, these reactions would have a material cause, which in turn would have a cause ad infinitum till you are back in embryonic form. Any “outer” influence on your brain too can be resolved back ad infinitum to past causes. From your embryonic form, this causal chain would enter the body of one or both of your parents. So ultimately, all causal chains converge at the moment of Big Bang( Though how did Big Bang occur would be the next problem. If you dont need to explain Big Bang, then why concoct causality to explain Anything ?). In this scheme of things, it is an “unconscious force of nature” that is shaoing everything in form of Causal Impetus. You can still call it Intelligent Design/God, because if this is nit intelligent, nothing is, as even einstein’s intelligence is a mere cog in its Cosmic workings. Your idea of having free will us then like the idea of a stone you threw but which became conscious mid-flight and thought that it us flying on its own volition.

            Coming to the most comprehensive yogic point of view I have come accross: There are determinisms of each plane which can be cancelled/modified by determinisms of a higher plane. A specific phenotype is expressed in your body(physical plane) which is quite fixed, but you can induce changes by using mental will(mental plane) to exercise it or, by radically altering it via magick.
            Physical plane is deterministic in itself, but is governed by the vital(astral) plane which in turn is governed by the mental plane and so on, last being Bliss plane(that is why all mystics end up revering Bliss/love as nothing describes the ultimate reality better). Immediately higher to the Mental plane is the Gnostic Plane which is similar to Plato’s World of Ideas where archetypes of everything you find on material plane like Man, Horse etc are found. The reflection of the higher planes percolate to lower ones getting more and more distorted. So is the True Will gets more and more distorted as it gets reflected through your Ego. By such “personal will” you may act contrary to True Will, but only to circumambulate towards the True Goal of your individual manifestation, suffering and causing suffering in the process, rather than arriving fast. God in form of your individual manifestation can truly emerge if you make the right evolutionary choices out of your free will and not due to an obvious compulsion, so your whimpy personal will(a distorted reflection of True Will) is allowed its ignorant play.

            I think the main question missed in these debates is: Who are we ? If there is a free will then to Whom does it actually belong ? Our body? Our mind ? So it is ultimately one of those Existential Problems that can only be resolved once we resolve this basic problem: Who Am I ?

            You may find the info in this comment useful for exposition on yogic/non dualistic view:


            Bear with some details.
            The last quote and link seem to suit your approach well.

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