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Author Topic: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition  (Read 8885 times)  Share 

Illuminatus

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Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« on: June 14, 2010, 07:56:47 PM »
http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/learn-to-understand-your-own-intelligence/

This is particularly gratifying for someone like me who fell at the very far end of "high cognition, low metacognition". Essentially the last 5 years or so have been me playing catch-up. I now place waaaaaay more value on metacognition, and really feel for the pain and blind frustration of people caught where I was.

This whole concept is a huge part of the "intellectual knowledge vs. experiential knowledge" trap.

GStarr

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 03:54:45 AM »
that was an amazing read. Thanks for that! But I have a question.. how do we get better at metacognition? With cogniition we can read books and go to school, but how do you improve your metacognition skills?

ryanh

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 06:40:35 AM »
I guess you have to throw yourself into situations where you don't know what will happen.  Trust your metacognition-- just because you can't plan out what you'll do shouldn't stop you from going for it.  For example, if you see a girl and you want her, but you don't know how to get her, just do something - grab her arm, talk to her about whatever, etc.  Trust that as the interaction continues, you'll steer it towards your goal

Illuminatus

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 10:14:35 AM »
that was an amazing read. Thanks for that! But I have a question.. how do we get better at metacognition? With cogniition we can read books and go to school, but how do you improve your metacognition skills?

By doing exactly what we do around here:

-Treat new experiences as a complete newb - assume you know nothing. This makes you into a sponge for new information, instead of filtering the experience through what you think you already know.
-Go out and meet lots of new people and try lots of new things. Be HUMBLE. Assume you can learn something from everyone and from every experience. Don't write people off as "dumber" than you and then not pay attention to them.
-Meditate daily so you have greater self-knowledge and clearer reflection upon events of the day.

nurag

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 05:53:39 PM »
Nice article. I think it feels great to really perceive that you don't know anything about a topic.
When you admit tat you don't have a clue, true learning can begin.
You don't try to fit something into your world view and can add it and let your reality tunnel expand.

I got this from a quick google search:
This storie concerns a Buddhist scholar and a Zen Master. The scholar had an extensive background in Buddhist Studies and was an expert on the Nirvana Sutra. He came to study with the master and after making the customary bows, asked her to teach him Zen. Then, he began to talk about his extensive doctrinal background and rambled on and on about the many sutras he had studied.

The master listened patiently and then began to make tea. When it was ready, she poured the tea into the scholar's cup until it began to overflow and run all over the floor. The scholar saw what was happening and shouted, "Stop, stop! The cup is full; you can't get anymore in."

The master stopped pouring and said: "You are like this cup; you are full of ideas about Buddha's Way. You come and ask for teaching, but your cup is full; I can't put anything in. Before I can teach you, you'll have to empty your cup."

GStarr

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 03:01:27 AM »
You guys are all so wise LOL. Honestly this forum has helped me so much.
Thanks guys.


The post from ryanh, ah, I'm not sure about just randomly grabbing girls and stuff. I have a block on that, I'm scared that
she will think i'm creepy, call me weird, scream rape? I dunno I'm scared of this. I actually got really high once, and tried to make out with a girl that I never met before. Things actually didn't end too badly... Please explain to me some of this.

I'm really a student, my cup is pretty empty, I don't have much to share or contribute, sorry guys :(

ryanh

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 04:36:50 AM »
You don't have to, but it works sometimes.  Sometimes it doesn't.  In my experience, if I can picture it possibly working, it is likely to work, and if not, it won't...

You can definitely start a conversation by grabbing or poking someone to get their attention.  To the girl, it's like when a song starts with electric guitar feedback...  It gets your attention, and gets you thinking "is this song gonna suck, or is it gonna rock really hard?"  Both shitty performances and the best performances start out with sloppy, risky intros like that...

Anyway, if you grab a girl's arm, she won't instantly scream RAAAAAAAAPE.  If she's normal, she'll take a look at you.  If you are holding a knife, and duct tape, and you have bloodstains all over your shirt then she's likely to scream...  If you just stand there with a terrified look on your face that quickly turns into a sheepish "don't hurt me" grin, and you say "um.. heheh, how's it going? i'm sorry am i bothering you" then she's gonna assume that you're uncomfortable, so she'll try to end the interaction...  Those are the equivalent of playing a terrible, sloppy intro solo where you're off key, off time, and saying "no wait, let me start over..."

If, on the other hand, you bust out into a mad solo with some crazy awesome riffs.  Or just some nice melodic simple stuff that doesn't offend the ear at all...  You're golden
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 04:39:19 AM by ryanh »

GStarr

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 04:55:27 AM »
Yeah thanks ryanh. Your right, I think I'm a bit insecure and oversensitive about this. I haven't had more experience. But I think when you do something that takes alot of balls the first time you meet a girl. No matter what it is, she will respect you for it. As long as it takes alot of balls to able to do/say. Even if its completely stupid, rude, or bold or whatever :D

I think metacognition is like knowing you are missing something, but just don't know what. Surely, everyone that found this forum by themselves must have some metacognition in them.

I can't remember how I found out about this forum. But I remember going to sosuave searching for solutions on my interpersonal and women problems. Then I realized that it isn't about getting girls, and it was more about personal power. So I searched personal power or something of that phrasing on google and led me here. So I guess that counts for a little bit of metacognition.

ryanh

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 09:53:11 AM »
Quote
But I think when you do something that takes alot of balls the first time you meet a girl. No matter what it is, she will respect you for it. As long as it takes alot of balls to able to do/say. Even if its completely stupid, rude, or bold or whatever

Be careful, cuz most of the time those things just make you look stupid.  Ask me how I know  :P  Read my latest post, it talks about the bubble of love which I think is the necessary goal.  So if what you do leads you towards that bubble of love, then it's good.

If you think that saying "I really wanna fuck you" will get her to come to you and pull down your pants cuz you're such an honest guy... well it didn't work for me.  BUT.  that kind of thing works if you are doing it as part of trying to move things along...  Do whatever it takes to keep moving towards the bubble of love.

Touching girls works really well for me, cuz to me, it means "I like you, and if you don't reject me I'm gonna keep escalating and sleep with you."  It doesn't mean "look how ballsy I am, jump on my nutz"...  although I bet you COULD touch a girl that way (in a very direct, challenging manner), and get her instantly attracted.  Actually escalation does create attraction, like 60 years of challenge says.

I pretty much use the same approach verbally.. Just do whatever it takes to keep moving towards sex.  You will definitely need to take some ballsy risks along the way.  Whether the risk-taking is what's attractive, or the touching/honest/directness/whatever.. I guess it doesn't matter.  Just make sure that whatever risk you're taking, you're prepared to back it up.  Don't wuss out.

I guess my point is, if you just do something ballsy like reach your hand down her pants, but fold and chode out right after, you'll have shown that it was fakery.

BUT actually you have opened my eyes a little bit, I think you're right, ballsy stuff is very attractive.  You just have to keep it up no matter what, don't back down, have no excuses.

Illuminatus

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2010, 10:16:36 AM »
Risk-taking is a matter of making loads of cock-ups, most of which WILL have an element of humiliation for you in the early days. Eventually however you learn to "see" an invisible path to successfully take you to your goal with each woman. This path is reported to you KINAESTHETICALLY. You literally "feel" your way down this path. You know when X behaviour will be a mistake because you feel it in your body. This ONLY comes from getting those reference points of failure, which effectively MAP OUT the path kinaesthetically. These kinaesthetics also tell you when to do something ballsy such as kiss her. When you reach this level, you can build escalation very effectively and often very quickly.

Take someone like Sleazy. He is making his approach, and his kinaesthetics are TELLING him how to move, what actions to do to escalate without scaring the girl off, and at what point to do the ballsy moves that are gonna accelerate the situation towards sex. A massive part of this is push-pull: he knows that you only do a big pull after you have set up a rhythm of mini push-pulls, and the time is then right to do that big pull. (A big pull always follows a medium push by the way). You won't know how to do this until you've fucked it up many times. It is intuition, which comes from experience. The map of HER state becomes so well defined within your own central nervous system that you can use your own state to navigate the situation towards wherever you want it to go.

The good news also is that you will already have LOTS of reference points regarding all manner of social situations (and other situations e.g. sports). It becomes a matter of being mindful of what your mind-body is telling you for each situation, then honing that accuracy by adding more and more reference points. In other words if you start regular mindfulness, everything starts getting easier pretty much straightaway as you begin following your own internal compass instead of relying on external "intellectual" reference points learned from books, seminars etc.

This is also why learning NLP to learn rapport such as mirroring is entirely pointless - as a human, you already HAVE most of the map within you. You just need to use common sense and follow that internal kinaesthetic compass by becoming mindful of it.

GStarr

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2010, 02:35:07 PM »
I think you guys are both right on the part that most of these things will make you look really stupid. Ballsy stuff is awesome to do, and I always get a rush when I do something like it. I'm slowly adding more balls into my life. Hah.

Ryanh, I actually do feel, or have the illusion, that telling a girl you want to fuck her, will lead her to fucking you. That's just from my own inexperience, I guess its a longer process then just that >.> Argh.  But yeah, I came to realize from my years in the "attracted" zone of many girls, then ended up in the "friend" zone, that attraction is not time related AT ALL. I find that talking to a girl excessively will actually make her run away.

A friend of mine has liked a girl for the past 6 months. He would talk to her alot, follow her at lunch, etc. Then recently, she started going out with a guy she just might a month ago. We all need to move fast lol.

But I think that ballsy behaviour is not only as a way of attracting girls. The primary reason I want to do stuff like this is that I want to, I can, and cuz I find it amusing, and I don't give a fuck if you guys find it stupid or not. I may be trying to prove something but its just to me that I can actually do this.

Yeah, you cannot back down from any of the ballsy stuff, I guess. The time when I tried to make out with the girl, she kept on complaining to my friend that I tried to make out with her, but I was so fucking high that I just smiled lol. Definitely cannot backing down.

I find this leads very well with Illuminatus's post on social success and neurotransmitters. In that post, I find it so true that the beta male actually doesn't know what he is allowed or not allowed to do. So he is afraid of failure, and he doesn't do anything at all. Also, the neurotransmitter boost is effective in bring your confidence and stopping the overanalysing of social situations. The highest I have been, in terms of neurotransmitters, was when I was on weed. I can only imagine how mindblowing it will be to reach the level in the post (analogous to being on cocaine?!? :D)

I agree Illum in the part about kinaesthetics and how we already have most of the map in you. This is why I stopped reading stuff on sosuave, I felt like it was all very superficial. We should all be alpha males if it wasn't for whatever mental blockage or barriers we have developed. I wanted to unblock my inner alpha thats hiding in the corner, instead of trying to learn techniques on how to talk to women, e.g. NLP, seduction, mystery method, ...list of bs.

Illum, I also have a question. The part where you talk about the mind-body in situations, is there were you become aware of your body and brain DURING an interaction with someone else? I have been trying to do that, but I find it hard. I do find that I become "in the moment" and "aware" when I focus on my own breathing. Do you have any other tips?

Thanks!

Illuminatus

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2010, 02:46:16 PM »
Illum, I also have a question. The part where you talk about the mind-body in situations, is there were you become aware of your body and brain DURING an interaction with someone else? I have been trying to do that, but I find it hard. I do find that I become "in the moment" and "aware" when I focus on my own breathing. Do you have any other tips?

This dude here explained it pretty well: http://montalk.net/metaphys/117/four-stages-of-conscious-awakening

He talks about being in the moment vs. having mindfulness, and how they conflict, and how to merge them both eventually.

moviestar

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2010, 10:05:29 PM »
I have a lot of difficulties remembering the words of a song. Everyone else seems to instantly remember at least a part of a song and reproduce it with ease. I can't do that so easily. However once I hear a song and band/author I instantly remember that I know this song and I will know it forever. I will also tell were I heard it, if I heard the composer, I will remember that, year of production and all metadata of a song like that. Does this tell that my strength is metacognition?

Silvertree

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2010, 10:31:48 PM »
GStarr wrote:

Quote
I find it so true that the beta male actually doesn't know what he is allowed or not allowed to do. So he is afraid of failure, and he doesn't do anything at all.

Yes, that was me when I was young.  It always led to...

Quote
A friend of mine has liked a girl for the past 6 months. He would talk to her alot, follow her at lunch, etc. Then recently, she started going out with a guy she just might a month ago. We all need to move fast lol.

Quote
We should all be alpha males if it wasn't for whatever mental blockage or barriers we have developed.

I believe Alpha male is the wrong metaphor.  It is more like in the old tribal life, there were the hunters/warriors and they all got laid a lot with much pussy to choose from.  It wasn't just the "Alpha" or best man, but all the guys who actually did the hunting and defending the tribe. 

Today, the ones who were raised to be audacious and encouraged to play rough sports at an early age are the warrior caste, but you can join them by changing your programming.  We are all designed to be killer apes, it is just that society has taught most of us that it is bad behavior.  Most of the behavior the current western culture tries to train out of boys are the warrior traits. The good news is, the genetic programming is strong and cannot be erased. 

There is an old parable about the sculptor who was asked how he made a such a beautiful statue of a horse.  He replies, I just chipped away all the parts of the rock that weren't horse. 

The average modern man still has a warrior inside of him, you just have to chip away all the parts that aren't warrior.

Silver

GStarr

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Re: Great Article on Cognition vs. Metacognition
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2010, 02:50:21 AM »
I just have to keep this thread up guys. This is so important.

At silvertree's comment on the warrior inside. How do we get that warrior out? Sometimes I just feel like doing something stupid in social circumstances and just doing whatever the fuck I want to do. But I feel that I can't.
I'm about to go to college, I want to see a hot girl in college, talk to her, and tell her immediately how I feel about her. That is what I imagine a warrior to be, unafraid or whatnot. But I think that the "college populus" won't take too kindly to me.

I don't really care about making friends, but should I get some friends first (college) before I go ape shit and release my warrior or what?


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