Author Topic: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal  (Read 23175 times)  Share 

Illuminatus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3697
  • Welcome to the Dawn
    • View Profile
    • The End of Social Anxiety
    • Email
Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« on: April 23, 2012, 11:19:08 AM »
It's time to come clean about my tramadol use. After my first addiction, covered in-depth in various posts on the Drugs board and culminating in my Tramadol Cold Turkey! post, I stopped taking it for about a month. I then stopped talking about it almost completely, giving the impression that I'd stopped using it. The reason for this is as follows. I began receiving several emails from people who had bought my book and had then visited this forum. The emails generally went along the lines of: "In your book you say you don't need drugs to overcome social anxiety. Yet, here you are on your forum taking drugs all the time!" Despite not really having all the facts, these emails did however highlight some of the more reactive conclusions people can draw about drug use.

In response to these emails, worried that my "reputation" might suffer, the solution I chose was simply to not talk about my taking tramadol any more. However, I've now decided to say "fuck that", because pharmaceuticals are a main subject area covered by this forum and I'm tired of skirting the issue just for the sake of placating a few people.

Since Christmas I have had no pre-planned timetable of tramadol use, but have instead used it responsively for work purposes, as it gives me a "calm alertness" and allows me to sit at the computer for long periods without discomfort. During hectic periods, I will sometimes take a couple of capsules every day for up to four weeks in a row, then take a break of 1 week or more. This has led to me having gone through approximately 4 additional "withdrawals" since Christmas.

Getting to the main point of this post, I wanted to share knowledge of just about the ultimate drug for opioid withdrawal, which is loperamide (known more widely as the anti-diarrhoea drug Imodium). This drug is an opioid receptor agonist like tramadol and other opioid drugs, but it does not cross the blood-brain barrier. Therefore it only affects cell receptors in the body, most importantly in the bowel. Most of the pain from opioid withdrawal actually originates in the bowel. While on opioid drugs, the bowel is basically paralysed (constipation is probably the most typical and obvious side-effect of opioid drugs). Upon withdrawal, the bowel goes haywire and gives you a constant pain in the abdomen, which is perceived as general pain all over the body. Loperamide however deals with this pain in just about the most complete way I have ever experienced. It makes withdrawal as painless as possible. Loperamide is also cheap as hell -- just a few bucks for a box from any pharmacy.

What I recommend is to take two loperamide on the first "really bad day" (which usually begins on the night of the first day without tramadol). The symptoms will lift very quickly. The following day, take just one. I managed a complete withdrawal in just 3 days using just 3 loperamide in this way, plus half of the lowest dose of venlafaxine on the first "really bad day" to recreate some of the serotonin/norepinephrine effects of tramadol. Actually, the effects of this tiny dose of venlafaxine were very interesting, and I will probably write about it in a separate post.

Credit to Chris from GoodLookingLoser.com for the loperamide tip!

cat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2012, 11:51:41 AM »
In response to these emails, worried that my "reputation" might suffer, the solution I chose was simply to not talk about my taking tramadol any more. However, I've now decided to say "fuck that", because pharmaceuticals are a main subject area covered by this forum and I'm tired of skirting the issue just for the sake of placating a few people.

Since Christmas I have had no pre-planned timetable of tramadol use, but have instead used it responsively for work purposes, as it gives me a "calm alertness" and allows me to sit at the computer for long periods without discomfort. During hectic periods, I will sometimes take a couple of capsules every day for up to four weeks in a row, then take a break of 1 week or more. This has led to me having gone through approximately 4 additional "withdrawals" since Christmas.

Thanks for honesty. That makes this forum different and that's why I really like it here. I was one of those sending such an email a few months ago and you sent me a lengthy reply which is very much appreciated. For my further understanding, could you please elaborate a little bit on this? I also intend to use Tramadol just to see how much I am from the ideal anxiety free state while still working on trauma releases. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought, through trauma release you didn't need Tramadol any more as you are already in a anxiety free state.

Also, how do you differentiate the impact of trauma release versus Tramadol when you use both? or do you use them at different times?

Illuminatus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3697
  • Welcome to the Dawn
    • View Profile
    • The End of Social Anxiety
    • Email
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2012, 01:34:40 PM »
Thanks for honesty. That makes this forum different and that's why I really like it here. I was one of those sending such an email a few months ago and you sent me a lengthy reply which is very much appreciated. For my further understanding, could you please elaborate a little bit on this? I also intend to use Tramadol just to see how much I am from the ideal anxiety free state while still working on trauma releases. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought, through trauma release you didn't need Tramadol any more as you are already in a anxiety free state.

I don't use tramadol for anxiety purposes. I use it for work, because my job is rather boring at times, and also because sitting for long periods (which the job necessitates) causes discomfort (no matter how good your posture, I do not believe sitting for 8 hours a day is ever going to be healthy or pain-free). My idea is that I want to teach meditation or do something away from the computer for a living. I am using tramadol to make my current job more palatable while I figure all that out.

Tramadol has some side effects however which makes me glad for the breaks. Sex drive takes a significant hit, as does pleasure from sex. Additionally, whilst mood is "good", it loses its dynamic range. So while you don't feel the "downs" so much, you also do not get as much pleasure from the little things in life, like food and sex. It makes you "flat". This is a good thing for someone who's depressed -- they have relief from their emotional pain. But as I am not depressed, I do prefer to feel the highs.

Tramadol also makes my thinking "flat" in some ways. The world seems less 3-dimensional -- and things "pop out" less. This tells me that perceptions are very much tied to mood and the sensations within the body.

When I first started taking tramadol it is fair to say I was a lot more depressed, and in a lot of pain from my back (which has mostly disappeared now through my posture work, but sitting for long periods will still bring it back), and it brought a lot of relief and allowed me to deal with things which before had seemed too burdensome or "not worth the effort". Glimpsing life without pain is very important for people, I believe, in order that they get a real picture of where they have pain in their life, and to know that life can be better for dealing with that pain. If you have lived a long time with some sources of pain, you tend to no longer see that pain, and your perceptions change to generally feeling that the world is a bad place and that life is hard. If it takes someone being on tramadol for a few weeks to be able to look beyond that, that is great, and this is why I am actually advising many people to try tramadol, despite its addictive profile.

Tramadol has been an interesting experience for me but I have grown out of it now. I'm more looking forward to testing out the nootropics which are arriving in the post soon. :)

Quote
Also, how do you differentiate the impact of trauma release versus Tramadol when you use both? or do you use them at different times?

I have a theory, but it's hard to prove either way. The theory is that tramadol helps trauma release by providing the opioid "everything is okay" signal. So you allow the trauma to really affect you in this full-body sense we have talked about, but the opioid receptors are getting hit so you have the sensation of being looked after even while going through the experience. It's kind of like how you heal quicker emotionally if you have supportive friends and family around you -- tramadol can emulate that (to a tiny, tiny degree -- do not think you can replace friends and family with tramadol!). There is also the notion that tramadol causes norepinephrine release, which is used primarily by the right brain hemisphere, and it is this hemisphere which controls the "reality model". So by releasing norepinephrine via tramadol, we are priming the right hemisphere to create new memories. I have no data to support that theory however.

Having said all this, my trauma release method was developed while not on tramadol, and it can be done with complete success without tramadol (and so should it be). My point here is that tramadol does not hinder trauma release, and may even help it, but is not necessary to use tramadol to do the exercises. In any case, you should always test if a trauma is "gone" by going out while not on tramadol (or any drug for that matter). Only when your feelings are completely "unmasked" can you really take a look to see if the method has worked.

Finally, I wanted to add that the time of tramadol's highest effectiveness (for everything) is definitely within the first few weeks of use. Try and get many new life experiences during those first weeks! After that, tolerance builds rapidly, and the "Everything's awesome!!" emotional high definitely plummets, giving way instead to this emotionally "flat" landscape I described earlier. That is actually pretty typical of any euphoriant.

aelephant

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 884
    • View Profile
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 01:25:55 AM »
The US FDA recently put Loperamide on a "watch list" because it may be causing pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas).

I have no idea how severe the pancreatitis is (sometimes pancreatitis can be fatal) or how frequent it is popping up. I imagine rarely, since it is just now being identified as a potential side effect.

Pancreatitis usually presents with abdominal pain, sometimes in combination with nausea and vomiting. The abdominal pain is often relieved by bending forward.

My intention is not to scare anyone, but just to share information.

Illuminatus

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3697
  • Welcome to the Dawn
    • View Profile
    • The End of Social Anxiety
    • Email
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 09:26:41 AM »
Thanks for the info, but I am not going to worry about getting pancreatitis from using 3 pills once a month (if that). And the FDA are a bunch of cunts anyway.

aelephant

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 884
    • View Profile
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2012, 04:06:20 PM »
Thanks for the info, but I am not going to worry about getting pancreatitis from using 3 pills once a month (if that). And the FDA are a bunch of cunts anyway.

Like I said, I'm not trying to scare anyone and I don't think it is something to be scared of.

Agree about the FDA being cunts, did you know they prevent about 5,000 deaths a year but cause at least 20,000 by delaying approval of beneficial medicines?

GoodLookingLoser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
    • Good Looking Loser
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 06:46:43 PM »
Sorry that I'm late to the party-- you might consider trying this herb called "kanna"

it exhibits the same SSRI effects that Tramadol does, but without the opioid dependency/tolerance. none.
to me- it feels exactly the same

The only problem is finding "good" kanna
hint: you want "rough cut" kanna that not been powdered
Hardcore Self-Improvement
www.goodlookingloser.com
get laid, get hung, etc. etc.

tyummk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 06:48:55 PM »
Sorry that I'm late to the party-- you might consider trying this herb called "kanna"

it exhibits the same SSRI effects that Tramadol does, but without the opioid dependency/tolerance. none.
to me- it feels exactly the same

The only problem is finding "good" kanna
hint: you want "rough cut" kanna that not been powdered

How does it compare with phenibut or kratom?

cypher

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 07:52:26 PM »
Sorry that I'm late to the party-- you might consider trying this herb called "kanna"

it exhibits the same SSRI effects that Tramadol does, but without the opioid dependency/tolerance. none.
to me- it feels exactly the same

The only problem is finding "good" kanna
hint: you want "rough cut" kanna that not been powdered

How does it compare with phenibut or kratom?

Kratom and tramadol feel almost the same.

Bro Bag

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Loperamide for Opioid Withdrawal
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2013, 03:56:31 AM »
A quick comment on the sitting at the computer for long periods of time thing:

I have a laptop, which I have propped up on a couple old books and reams of printer paper (I got the idea from your posture thread). It's low enough that I can use it sitting down, but high enough to use standing up, which I do quite frequently (about 50% of the time).

I also use it on my bed with my head propped up on pillows to watch films and stuff.

I think if you alter your position (sitting-standing-lying) you may be able to work for longer periods of time without getting uncomfortable. I used to work in a supermarket as a cashier, and I would alternate sitting and standing (and near the end of my stay there balancing on one leg and then the other) in order to prevent both discomfort and boredom.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf