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Author Topic: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression  (Read 9278 times)  Share 

Illuminatus

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moviestar

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2011, 05:43:18 PM »
Here is my number 1 complaint about any guides about lifting depression, including this one. This is all terrific stuff and everyone that isn't depressed will probably take your advice. The problem is, depressed people think differently. They will understand this advice but won't do anything.

I know myself well when I am in a depressed state. I will just read those 7 points and say: yeah I know this will make me feel good but... what's the point of feeling good...

You know what I mean?

Illuminatus

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 06:54:35 PM »
Here is my number 1 complaint about any guides about lifting depression, including this one. This is all terrific stuff and everyone that isn't depressed will probably take your advice. The problem is, depressed people think differently. They will understand this advice but won't do anything.

I know myself well when I am in a depressed state. I will just read those 7 points and say: yeah I know this will make me feel good but... what's the point of feeling good...

You know what I mean?

No, I don't, unfortunately.

I've always had a "can do, will do" attitude towards everything, including depression.

I actually don't understand people who think like how you describe, so please help me learn about it by writing a bit more about how they think and how I should speak to them -- please? :)

zorba

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 02:55:00 AM »
In my opinion, no amount of advice could get through a case of genuine depression, because it starts with having no control over your situation and ends with total dopamine depletion. You have never seen how bad this can get until you live in a homeless shelter, where every day is exactly the same as the day before and NOBODY believes that any effort in any direction will improve their situation. When you're depressed, it's not a situation, it's just a fact of life - there's no point in doing anything. This is what it's like to be in prison, too.

I believe dopaminergic shock treatment is the only first step to getting over anything. It sounds almost insulting, but I'd send someone to the gym before I did anything else. Without dopamine, you can't change anything and you don't have the motivation to try. You get no joy from the world, you just keep your head down and get through the day for no other reason than to go to bed again.

10% of the proceeds of my business go to a local homeless outreach program and I'd seriously advise you spend time at a shelter if you want a VIVID example of social status drastically altering brain chemistry.

moviestar

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 04:53:03 PM »
Quote
No, I don't, unfortunately.

I've always had a "can do, will do" attitude towards everything, including depression.

I actually don't understand people who think like how you describe, so please help me learn about it by writing a bit more about how they think and how I should speak to them -- please?

I don't know. I have the "can do, will do" attitude also. But there are like 2 days in a year were you feel really depressed right? Try to remember how it was.

I think the only way to get out of that state is some external shock. Drugs, or something that will cause some chemical spike. After that they can read this guide and benefit from it.

aelephant

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2011, 08:55:14 AM »
Here is my number 1 complaint about any guides about lifting depression, including this one. This is all terrific stuff and everyone that isn't depressed will probably take your advice. The problem is, depressed people think differently. They will understand this advice but won't do anything.

I know myself well when I am in a depressed state. I will just read those 7 points and say: yeah I know this will make me feel good but... what's the point of feeling good...

You know what I mean?

I agree with this post ("you can only help those who help themselves"), but as was pointed out, you are generalizing about depressed people. If you are aware you're slipping into depression and take some of this advice and implement it, you can avoid getting to that point where you have no motivation to do anything. Not everyone experiences that severity of depression as well.

wolfnight

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 07:01:57 PM »
Good day   :)

This is Moha  ;D
Carrying on with the discussion (check Article link !)

First, thanks for replaying Illuminatus.
Second, will for "input control" <<< for this issue, I agree with almost everything you said, but the reason I said it is difficult, because you have to acknowledge there are many cultures, faiths, situations, where you can't simply leave or let go ! because as for the situation you mentioned is just a matter of the environment you have experienced. Some people such as me and others, are from different culture, background, environment and not to mention by environment I mean almost everything a person is surrounded with. (e.g.Some might live in poor country where some might live in a rich country)

Which both provide different environment and resources. This may hold a reason for depression; Therefore,  I would say for 'input control" if  the situation is where you can let go (ignore/leave) then simply let go and move over, however; for some situations you have to deal with in order to make your self in a better state.

**Depression Cure** (is there one ?!  :-\)

To cure depression, you have to identify it first, and by that I mean that depression level vary from person to another, which leads to searching for the type of depression that person has. Moreover, this leads to identifying the reason of why that person is depressed in order to find the best solution for him/her. Because there MUST be a reason that started the shock of depression that could have developed to major states. (Conclusion is Uniqueness states!) 


A good start to help depressed person is to listen and force them to talk (in  a tricky way ;) ),because most depressed people don't want to, because of fear of guilt,shame and other depressive thoughts.

One more thing before I finish my above essay  ;D

(Depressed People)
If you are reading this, I advise you to read Undoing Depression: What Therapy Doesn't Teach You and Medication Can't Give You it is a good book to start with I guess  :-\, Yes I know you don't feel like it, but at LEAST give it a try ! You Never Know  ;)


Thanks

Illuminatus

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 09:49:19 PM »

**Depression Cure** (is there one ?!  :-\)


There are very quick, effective cures for depression, but the problem is that they take time, experience and patience to do consistently. Those are the meditative practices. And the most powerful one for me personally is to go on a presence walk, where you walk for 30-60 minutes in the street, until your mind is completely clear. Of course you have to know how to allow your mind to become clear. I can also do it by standing in the garden looking at nature for 10-20 minutes. But you have to know HOW. How your mind and emotions work, and how to let go of thoughts and things. Most people think they ARE their thoughts.

It's taken me 3 years of practising mindfulness to be able to do this consistently now. However I am going to attempt to teach it in a forthcoming e-book.

wolfnight

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 12:28:22 AM »
Good day

I agree with everything Illuminatus, and especially with the walking activity, I should do it because my dad always told me to, but  :-X I never listen !

One more thing to add is this "Pleasure is Animal, Happiness is Human, Bliss is Divine" ! I think that pleasure is animal is one major cause that lead to depression ! its solution might be simple but requires effort and a resource  ;) especially when someone has faith(religion).

Best of Luck with your forthcoming e-book <<<great accomplishment
 
Thanks



Illuminatus

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2011, 05:21:26 PM »
I forgot to add one more thing regarding motivation: Anger

If you can get the person to become ANGRY about their situation (rather than fearful/apathetic, the hallmark emotions of depression) then this dumps TONS of neurotransmitters, including DOPAMINE (the important one for motivation).

Anger is a higher energy level than fear or apathy. The trick is to get them blaming something -- giving them a target for which they can rally their neurotransmitters to form a response. But it can't be passive blame, they need to get fired up enough that they feel compelled to do something. They need to pull all their memories of what caused their situation into their minds at once, in order that they get this focused rage.

Obviously this can be dangerous depending on how the person handles anger --  in which case guidance is required to have them use it constructively.

The bottom line is that getting out of depression often isn't pleasant. Depression is a nice, easy, passive mindset to be in. Getting people fired up and motivated DRAGS them out of that state. There is a real emotional MOVEMENT which they probably won't be used to. But it is this emotional movement that gets them out of their rut. And once they are out, with the changes in place, life will settle down to a new state. I know I have done this in my life and can vouch that it is probably the natural way to get out of states of apathy and fear. Once there is a sense of achievement from taking ACTION, then there is a shift to a higher emotional state above anger, of feeling contented and being able to enjoy life again.

Depressives are AVOIDERS first and foremost. They don't ENGAGE life. Anger is the gateway to this engagement, after which they can engage with emotional states of love, enjoyment and so on.

No one said getting out of depression is easy. But there aren't many choices in the matter:

1) Carry on being depressed
2) Kill yourself
3) Drag yourself up via a change in strategy, which almost always takes hard work and educating yourself about YOU and how you work.

Depressives usually take choice 1 because it's easiest. Choice 2 can also seem easier than choice 3, and that gets taken a lot too -- whether it's by direct suicide, or existential suicide (slow death from drinking, drugs, or the medical illnesses brought about by chronic depression).

Neverbackdown

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 07:53:46 PM »
There are very quick, effective cures for depression, but the problem is that they take time, experience and patience to do consistently. Those are the meditative practices. And the most powerful one for me personally is to go on a presence walk, where you walk for 30-60 minutes in the street, until your mind is completely clear. Of course you have to know how to allow your mind to become clear. I can also do it by standing in the garden looking at nature for 10-20 minutes. But you have to know HOW. How your mind and emotions work, and how to let go of thoughts and things. Most people think they ARE their thoughts.

It's taken me 3 years of practising mindfulness to be able to do this consistently now. However I am going to attempt to teach it in a forthcoming e-book.
Sorry to go offtopic, but is the writing of a book back on your agenda Illumintaus? :)

Illuminatus

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2011, 08:40:51 PM »
There are very quick, effective cures for depression, but the problem is that they take time, experience and patience to do consistently. Those are the meditative practices. And the most powerful one for me personally is to go on a presence walk, where you walk for 30-60 minutes in the street, until your mind is completely clear. Of course you have to know how to allow your mind to become clear. I can also do it by standing in the garden looking at nature for 10-20 minutes. But you have to know HOW. How your mind and emotions work, and how to let go of thoughts and things. Most people think they ARE their thoughts.

It's taken me 3 years of practising mindfulness to be able to do this consistently now. However I am going to attempt to teach it in a forthcoming e-book.
Sorry to go offtopic, but is the writing of a book back on your agenda Illumintaus? :)

I've finished one, it will be released within the next 2 weeks -- it's called The End of Social Anxiety.

The next one will follow shortly after, when I have written it, and will be about cultivating presence, and what presence really is.

moviestar

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2011, 11:59:05 PM »
Quote
1) Carry on being depressed
2) Kill yourself
3) Drag yourself up via a change in strategy, which almost always takes hard work and educating yourself about YOU and how you work.

I think I was really depressed once in my life. Back then I came logically to an ultimatum:
Either I kill myself or... I try to live the best life I can live.
If you think about it long enough, that's the only 2 choices you have. Whenever I feel myself drifting into apathy or depression I remind myself of that decision (which was a logical decision!) and I decide I still want to continue living.

wolfnight

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2011, 08:04:02 AM »
Hello  :)
exercise, sleep, diet, change in habits, expression of emotion (usually comes out as anger layering over sadness), reframing cognitions to regain the control that the person is perceiving as lost.
Totally agree, Yet to be dragged by life issues such as college life, especially for me  :(, it is nearly impossible to accomplish those steps daily or in a good way, since college life is full  of unstable things  such as time spending to finish HW and Studies. Not to mention that depression sometimes puts a person into a cycle uneasy to break, which adds more density to his/her depression.



1) Carry on being depressed
2) Kill yourself
3) Drag yourself up via a change in strategy, which almost always takes hard work and educating yourself about YOU and how you work.

Add 4. Hope

If a depressed person gets hope it will bring motivation and the best type hope is providing great examples !

------

Thanks  :)

Illuminatus

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Re: Your Basic Guide to Lifting Depression
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2011, 12:41:34 PM »
Hello  :)
exercise, sleep, diet, change in habits, expression of emotion (usually comes out as anger layering over sadness), reframing cognitions to regain the control that the person is perceiving as lost.
Totally agree, Yet to be dragged by life issues such as college life, especially for me  :(, it is nearly impossible to accomplish those steps daily or in a good way, since college life is full  of unstable things  such as time spending to finish HW and Studies. Not to mention that depression sometimes puts a person into a cycle uneasy to break, which adds more density to his/her depression.

I recommend the simple step of taking 30-60 minutes per day -- no excuses! -- to do presence walks.

I wrote a guide to doing this here: http://www.personalpowermeditation.com/forum/social-dynamics/a-strong-presence/msg4011/#msg4011 -- my new e-book describes it better so you might want to check that out in a week when it's released.

Your aim is just to experience the environment without thought. When you have a thought, just let it go and continue looking at the environment. Eventually a great sense of calm will befall you, and "not thinking" will become automatic. All depression is eradicated, because depression is caused by thoughts, and you are getting rid of thoughts. Also you will find that this calm lasts for several hours after the walk.

That is my advice. It has never not worked for me. And the habit of presence gets stronger the more you do it.


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